Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

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Phil_F_NM
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Real name: Philip Forrest
Location: Philadelphia, PA

Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by Phil_F_NM » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:22 pm

Hello all, I'm Phil. I've been a still photographer for about 25 years. Did 8 years in the US Navy, the last three were as a photographer with combat engineers.
So, I'm a tinkerer and love to build project cameras, shoot with them and either keep them or pass them on to someone who will.
Our last winter freeze close to the new year got myself and my girlfriend thinking about doing motion picture. She's taking a digital video class in college and asked about the feasibility of shooting motion picture film. We got to researching stuff and found her a nice working Elmo C300 super 8. Being the mechanical geek I am, I started lurking around the internet and have decided on a Bell & Howell 70 (DR, DL, DE) that can shoot 1R film. I found on on the 'bay, bought it and started looking for lenses. I also found that occasionally there are some nice optics attached to Kodak 16mm magazine cameras. I got two Cine Ektars which I can adapt to C-mount when the camera arrives. The B&H sale was canceled by the seller so I'm back to looking for a serious 16mm that shoots 100ft rolls. In the meantime, I have this Cine Kodak Royal Magazine so I want to see what can be done with it.
I pop open a magazine to look at the mechanism in there and it seems that modifying the capstan (terminology?) which both drives the film transport and the take-up, wouldn't be hard at all. I have the thing 95% apart and just need to punch off the gear that interfaces with the camera to remove the cylinder with the film cogs. The toothed cog is at the opposite side of the pull-down claw so in its current form the magazine needs 2R stock. Having this piece machined as well as the intermediate coupling gear on a shaft should be pretty easy. The new capstan would have the teeth located lower so that 1R film could be reloaded. I'm going to be hand-fitting one of these in the coming weeks and using the flashed roll of Kodachrome II from the magazine to test transport.
Could this be a product that anyone would be interested in, in order to put a few thousand 16mm magazine cameras back into operation?
I want to shoot some 16mm of my family next time we get to visit them out west and go camping. Having a few magazines pre-loaded and taking the tiny wind-up camera would be great for hiking out in the boonies of New Mexico.
My apologies in advance if this is in the wrong forum or the topic has been covered before. I couldn't find any specific threads on modifying magazines that went anywhere.
Looking forward to learning from you all and hopefully contributing to the community.

Phil Forrest

silverhalide
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by silverhalide » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:22 am

Kiev magazines will accept 1R film. They are otherwise the same as Kodak magazines.

I've had poor luck running Kiev magazines.

daver
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by daver » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:18 pm

Phil,
Glad someone else is interested in the possibility of loading 50ft magazines with 1R single perf 16mm film. I posted a question on this subject on this forum in January 2016 but got no replies. I have since tried to convert a magazine myself but with my limited engineering skills I have not been successful. However, my findings may be useful in your quest. The capstan with sprocket teeth is secured by the small gear which engages with the drive in the camera has a left hand thread. Delicate use of long nosed pliers may be enough to remove it. When the sprockets are moved to the bottom, a groove will have to be machined in the two aluminium retaining pins which are held in place with a wire clip.

I hope your project is successful and if it is, please let me know and I will be interested in purchasing a converted magazine from you.

Good luck

Dave (U.K.)

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Phil_F_NM
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by Phil_F_NM » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:31 pm

Dave, thanks for the help! I thought the drive gear which interfaces the camera was just staked in. I'll twist mine off today!
couldn't those aluminum guides just be turned upside down and spaced with small shims to ensure they allow the sprocket teeth to move?

Thanks again.
Phil Forrest

daver
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by daver » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:32 pm

Phil, I don't know if turning them upside down would be o.k., but I met someone who had converted a magazine and he said that the grooves would have to be cut. Let me know how you get on with removing the capstan. I used a pair of tweezers and a small grip, but of course it is important not to damage the teeth on the cog. Just how you move the sprockets to the bottom, I don't know.
Dave

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Phil_F_NM
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by Phil_F_NM » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:09 am

Well, I just saw the https://www.filmshooting.com/scripts/fo ... =1&t=2831716mm Magazine thread over in the Small Gauge forum and I'm going to try that. I'm just thinking without the sprocket pulling the supply and controlling the feed to the takeup core, there could be a problem with the loop if any delay in feed happens. Either way, I'll try it!

Phil Forrest

daver
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Re: Introduction and a Kodak 16mm magazine project

Post by daver » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:54 pm

I am going to try it too. So far I have loaded a magazine with 50ft of white leader and it runs very well. Advantages are that it is easier to load and takes a good 50ft of film and only 1ft of lead is needed whereas over 2ft is needed when threading in the conventional way. My only concern is that the frame line may not be steady because it is relying on only the claw action. I am not home processing so it may take a few weeks to get the results. Dave

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