The State of Double Super 8

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mr8mm
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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by mr8mm » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:05 am

Dennis Toeppen placed a special order with Kodak for unpeforarated 16mm V3 and Tri-X in 2015. At that time a minimum order was about $28000. He posted several times regarding the subject. He had the unperforated film perforated and packaged by Wittner. He was selling 25ft for about $45.00

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by aj » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:05 am

mr8mm wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:05 am
Dennis Toeppen placed a special order with Kodak for unperforated 16mm V3 and Tri-X in 2015. At that time a minimum order was about $28000. He posted several times regarding the subject. He had the unperforated film perforated and packaged by Wittner. He was selling 25ft for about $45.00
That was to obtain R-8... Spending a ton on shipping, customs likely and the service of Wittner doesn't bring favourable prices.
Toeppen is still selling from that stock http://toeppenfilm.com/

The idea for DS-8 would be to have Kodak divert a few of the DS-8 perforated long-rolls, who are an intermediate product in the S8 workflow, diverted from that flow and spooled onto 16mm 100 feet spools which already have in the house too. Thinking outside the box can be tricky but seems doable here. No rocket science involved...
Kind regards,

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by Will2 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm

Mmechanic wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:45 am
Will2 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:11 pm
My Kodak rep is looking into it.
I love that.
I makes me sound important. :)

He was as curious as me on this one though. I would expect it to be a $5,000 minimum or so. That's a lot of Double Super 8.

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by 7OSE9 » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:49 pm

Eric Milborn wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:52 pm
I assume that the new Wittnerpan 50 and Wittnerpan 100
Does anyone know what emulsions are? Orwo?

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by mr8mm » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:35 pm

Wittner has the ability out to sniff out remainder stocks. Usually the stocks are from Afga. Foma 100_R and Orwo UN54 are the only B/W stocks currently available as fresh stock.

I have been working with Kodak for 20 years. Generally they don't think out side the box. I doubt any attempt to get DS8 from he current production line would be possible. Kodak would have to make a cat number to work the film through the Kodak manufacturing, billing,ordering and accounting system. Your best bet for DS8 is to buy unperforated 16mm and send to Wittner for perforating as DS8, Double 8 and perhaps 16mm two edge.

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by 7OSE9 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:26 am

mr8mm wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:35 pm
Wittner has the ability out to sniff out remainder stocks. Usually the stocks are from Afga. Foma 100_R and Orwo UN54 are the only B/W stocks currently available as fresh stock.

I have been working with Kodak for 20 years. Generally they don't think out side the box. I doubt any attempt to get DS8 from he current production line would be possible. Kodak would have to make a cat number to work the film through the Kodak manufacturing, billing,ordering and accounting system. Your best bet for DS8 is to buy unperforated 16mm and send to Wittner for perforating as DS8, Double 8 and perhaps 16mm two edge.
True, Foma and Orwo, definitely, 100 Asa...
But who knows about 50 asa... Adox? That was also 100. Wittner says that it can also expose at 40 and 64 asa, but I can't remember recently b/w emulsions with this sensitivity. And if it came from a non-perforated 16mm? A DS8 could come out...
I still don't see any results on the web, I'm curious to know if this 50 has really little grain and greater contrast.

On another forum I read about the "bureaucratic impossibility" and about not "being able" to act out of the "classic" market for Kodak.
I resigned myself to shoot in DS8 only with Fomapan (we hope this will live forever!).
And then... the size of DS8 that should be sold according to the manufacturer's requests is too large, how many DS8 users there are compared to the Super 8 users, in relationship? 1/10?
I want to trust to majors, but I'm unhappy that can't allocate a slice to the DS8, since the film would be ready! A market that doesn't allow you to sell a small percentage of the product just because "different" is a bad market :(
Ah, I also put this thing in the argument: if DS8 stocks goes wrong, it's a film that can be cut at home and used as Super 8, sell by meter, to recharge personal cartridges, or sold for those who mark his cartridges (laboratories, etc.).

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by silverhalide » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 am

EK does not have perforating machines for R8 or DS8. When they closed the Windsor, CO facility they scrapped much/most of the equipment. EK does not own an R8 perforator, at least as of about 1.5 years ago. I imagine DS8 was even lower priority than R8.

Wittner had the ability to perf DS8 before they moved. I'm not sure what they kept, but I know they were trying to lighten their load substantially.

Dennis

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by silverhalide » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:58 am

Just to clarify, I'm speculating about DS8 equipment. My writing above was a little sloppy.

I'm pretty sure they would have dumped that before R8.

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by Mana » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:52 am

Pretty sure there would be no Super 8 without DS8
R8: Bolex B8

S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)

DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4

S16: Bolex Rex4

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by wahiba » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:48 pm

I am selling a couple of Russian reloadable cartidges currently on eBay. Check the auction option on the board index for the link.
New web site and this is cine page http://www.picsntech.co.uk/cine.html

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by Will2 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:55 pm

Mana wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:52 am
Pretty sure there would be no Super 8 without DS8
Just to be clear, any stock Kodak sells in Super 8 (Vision 3 50D, 200T, 500T, Ektachrome, Tri-X) at one stage in it's life IS DS8. That's the step right before they slit the 16mm double Super 8 perf down to load the cartridges.

So the trick is to get Kodak to pull some off before they make they slit it. Which you'd think would be no big deal but is apparently some sort of bureaucratic nightmare for them.

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by Silverdream » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:51 am

Will2 wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 pm
Mmechanic wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:45 am
Will2 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:11 pm
My Kodak rep is looking into it.
I love that.
I makes me sound important. :)

He was as curious as me on this one though. I would expect it to be a $5,000 minimum or so. That's a lot of Double Super 8.
Just wondered if Kodak's cleaners got back to you offering 50,000 feet of Double Super 8 Ektachrome for $75,000? :D
The reality is they could sell Double Super 8 but that would eat into their profits of the Super 8 cartridges so it won't happen.

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Re: The State of Double Super 8

Post by Will2 » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:46 pm

Silverdream wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:51 am
The reality is they could sell Double Super 8 but that would eat into their profits of the Super 8 cartridges so it won't happen.
The last I heard back was to wait until 16mm Ektachrome is available...then talk to them again.

Honestly I don't think it's the eating into the Super 8 profit that's the issue...It's simply the crazy bureaucracy involved with generating a new temporary part number for their inventory system.

I wish I could just buy these guys some beers and say spool some off for me.

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