New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

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Dyched
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New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Dyched » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:20 pm

I recently scored a Sankyo Super CM600 which is on its way along with some Kodak 50d.

Is there any advice anyone has for me? Will this type of film be ok with this camera? Im also looking at getting some 200t. Will that type work? Ive been search the internet for info but cant seem to find any for this camera.

Thank You

Silverdream
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Silverdream » Sat May 05, 2018 4:06 pm

Welcome to Super 8 film making.
Firstly, determine if your camera's automatic exposure system is still working accurately. Due to aging components camera exposure systems sometimes don't work accurately anymore.
If possible use a Kodachrome 40ASA cartridge and check the camera reading against a known light meter reading.
If the camera only has two notch reading pins then it will only read for 25/40ASA and 100/160ASA film cartridges.
The 50D film will probably set the camera speed to 40ASA but you will need to set the internal camera filter to Tungsten even when shooting in daylight.
It will over expose the film slightly, but since it's negative film it should be OK.
The 200T will probably set to 160ASA and since it's a negative film the slight over exposure shouldn't be too much of a problem.

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by slashmaster » Sat May 12, 2018 8:17 pm

I've had almost the same Sankyo Except mine ran at 9 FPS instead of 36 when you push in the side button. I think I would have rather had yours. Not bad for a first camera, I had a lot of fun with mine. But keep in mind there are ones that give WAY better performance. Compared to other cameras, I don't think this one gives a very sharp image in low light so I would recommend bright daylight for your first films. In general, zoom lenses get best performance about 2/3 from fully wide open, so keep that in mind when you film something from a tripod. I wish I had.

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by slashmaster » Sat May 12, 2018 8:20 pm

Oh yeah, the exposure on this one can be set manually so if the auto exposure calibration is off it's not a huge problem. Make sure to film without the filter if you use tri-x.

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by slashmaster » Sat May 12, 2018 8:28 pm

slashmaster wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:20 pm
Oh yeah, the exposure on this one can be set manually so if the auto exposure calibration is off it's not a huge problem, you just need to know ballpark what it should be. Make sure to film without the filter for your 50D and tri-x.

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Patrick
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Patrick » Wed May 16, 2018 3:23 pm

Silverdream wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:06 pm
The 200T will probably set to 160ASA and since it's a negative film the slight over exposure shouldn't be too much of a problem.
It wouldn't be a problem at all. Quite the opposite really - it would be beneficial and actually preferred. Film crews who shoot on negative film for movies and television shows deliberately overexpose the film in order to produce deeper blacks and finer grain. It's also an insurance against accidental underexposure which is the worst thing you can do to negative film.

Regrettably, the only 16mm negative film I shot (a few years ago) was underexposed by yours truly. There was nothing wrong with my light meter or my technique - I put it down to the grey card I was using. I had set the asa speed on my light meter to half a stop slower than the film I was using but that wasn't enough to prevent the underexposure. I really regret not setting it to at least one stop slower. Grrrrr.

Actually, prior to that, I had shot 16mm colour and black & white reversal film stocks and my exposures were spot on. I was using the same light meter but not the grey card.

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Silverdream » Fri May 18, 2018 6:49 am

Patrick,
I have never used negative film but what you say makes sense. I know that underexposing reversal film slightly, results in the colours appearing more saturated.
In general I prefer low contrast colour images and would even like some film that delivers pastely colours. I think processing might be one way to achieve the pastel look and if anyone has suggestions to how to do this it would be appreciated.

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by doug » Fri May 18, 2018 10:37 am

Silverdream wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 6:49 am
Patrick,
I have never used negative film but what you say makes sense. I know that underexposing reversal film slightly, results in the colours appearing more saturated.
In general I prefer low contrast colour images and would even like some film that delivers pastely colours. I think processing might be one way to achieve the pastel look and if anyone has suggestions to how to do this it would be appreciated.
Flashing ? It's hard, though not impossible, with super-8.

http://filmcamblog.blogspot.co.uk/2010/ ... image.html

I do it most of the time with 16mm col reversal. The results I find more pleasing, and also much more suitable for copying/scanning.
And easy too I suppose with regular-8.
In my blog thing I said super-8 not feasible for post-flashing, but you could make some kind of gadget that goes on the front of the lens, housing a 50/50 mirror and an electric light maybe... You'd see how it looked through finder while filming normally. One super-8 camera, I can't remember which, has a fold-out mirror behind the lens.
Doug
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Silverdream
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Silverdream » Fri May 18, 2018 2:10 pm

Thanks Doug for the suggestion. That Super 8 camera with the fold out mirror, is that originally for flashing? Sounds interesting.
I can understand how flashing can reduce the films contrast. Maybe the light from a diffused LED could be used at the front of the lens to fog the film slightly during shooting.
I think the pastely colour I am thinking of would need to be a property of the film emulsion or via filters during the printing process.
The Kodachrome process would have been ideal as the colour dyes are added during processing and these could have been changed slightly to give a film a certain look.

alexmuir
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by alexmuir » Sat May 19, 2018 12:47 am

Cross-processing might be a route to the pastel look.
Alex


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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by doug » Sun May 20, 2018 11:12 am

Silverdream wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 2:10 pm
Thanks Doug for the suggestion. That Super 8 camera with the fold out mirror, is that originally for flashing? Sounds interesting.
I can understand how flashing can reduce the films contrast. Maybe the light from a diffused LED could be used at the front of the lens to fog the film slightly during shooting.
I think the pastely colour I am thinking of would need to be a property of the film emulsion or via filters during the printing process.
The Kodachrome process would have been ideal as the colour dyes are added during processing and these could have been changed slightly to give a film a certain look.
Sorry Dyched, this is straying away a lot from your Sankyo query ! :-?
Ha Ha ! Silverdream, I actually just found one in my cupboard !... thought it had gone... the little Elmo 103T.
That mirror is meant for superimposing titles and so on. It gives quite a wierd look in the reflex viewfinder when open. Double image. So I tried putting a piece of frosted glass in front and it makes the image like in a fog. Much more pastel than you'd want. Probably like you say some little LED shining into the circular window might work. There seems to be a kind of prism or 50/50 mirror within the camera, but how that image gets to the viewfinder baffles me, as v/f is on the other side of camera and appears forward of the mirror.
Maybe other super-8 cameras (like the Sankyo etc) could be simply modified to take a small piece of 50/50 mirror or even just a transparent glass at 45 degrees, behind the lens but in front of the viewfinder somehow.
The great thing about flashing is you can tone the dark areas any colour you like also. Plus it gets more detail into those areas if you want it.
Doug
www.filmisfine.co

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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by doug » Sun May 20, 2018 2:22 pm

I've always found these Sankyos reliable and meter working OK, amazing when you think their age. A couple of Sankyos on my site, the 300 and 400.
https://filmisfine.com/shop/super-8-cam ... kyo-cm300/

Not too sure though how it copes with 50D. Maybe safer at first to use manual exp. And make sure the amber filter is out, by screwing down that thing on top (red on mine).
Doug
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by doug » Mon May 21, 2018 9:57 am

Silverdream re the flashing idea, I think it would be OK with just clear optical glass angled, with a tiny amount of diffused light. Possibly filtration too.
Doug
www.filmisfine.co

Silverdream
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Re: New to Super 8 (Sankyo cm600)

Post by Silverdream » Thu May 24, 2018 4:46 am

Thanks Doug and Alexmuir for your suggestions regards getting a pastel or low contrast look. I will try your suggestions and may open a new thread rather than hijack the OP's topic.

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