As my shooting has evolved so has my use of Super8. 5+ years ago I may have said that S8 can conquer the world and could almost do it all. Three years ago I would have said that Super8 could do some things better than others. Now, I find that I am using Super8 less and less. When I do use it--It is for a specific reason.
I used to find Super8's "Limitations" liberating and refreshing. Now I am finding them to be the former.
What about you??
Good Luckh
Changing Thoughts On S8....
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S8 Booster
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I tend to agree on this but I classify it this way:
If the end destination is DV everything is simpler and less critical with 16+mm due to the grain issue and potential jitter problem.
On the other hand if EVERYTHING is done right an you (anyone) is 4 times better than the average 16mm guys and 16 times better than the average 35mm guys Super8 is still a fabolous format which can do "almost" anything.
As an example: Look at most TV films; 90+% of the shots are close up conversations or so. Scenery like this S8 can do chilly good with the right filmstock and nitty gritty light settings. However, if it is 4 times easier with 16mm there is an easy choice. Just imagine the jitter issue. That alone points at 16+mm at least at the current standings.
For my amateur/semi work I would still go S8 and definately for direct projection no-pro purposes (and home movie like films).
At the first sniff of anything commercial I would do [any] 16mm format.
R
If the end destination is DV everything is simpler and less critical with 16+mm due to the grain issue and potential jitter problem.
On the other hand if EVERYTHING is done right an you (anyone) is 4 times better than the average 16mm guys and 16 times better than the average 35mm guys Super8 is still a fabolous format which can do "almost" anything.
As an example: Look at most TV films; 90+% of the shots are close up conversations or so. Scenery like this S8 can do chilly good with the right filmstock and nitty gritty light settings. However, if it is 4 times easier with 16mm there is an easy choice. Just imagine the jitter issue. That alone points at 16+mm at least at the current standings.
For my amateur/semi work I would still go S8 and definately for direct projection no-pro purposes (and home movie like films).
At the first sniff of anything commercial I would do [any] 16mm format.
R
..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...
I'm having similar thoughts, especially as projects become more critical and important.
The clients on that music video I did actually requested S8. But later their DVD people had mild complaints about the grain, wondered why they "didn't just use HD," etc.
I'm currently talking to another band about a video. They thought they wanted S8 (they had seen the other video and liked the look). They're a much bigger band, so I told them no way would I risk their image by shooting exclusively on S8. Some shots, perhaps, but certainly the "performance segment" will be shot on 16mm with a crystal-sync camera. I'm not pulling my hair over sync issues on a music video again.
Converting my S8 camera to crystal seems a waste of money when I can do the same for my Scoopic, then have access to film stock (without being enslaved to Pro8's varying quality of service).
I don't really like K40, and that stock is a big reason for Shooting S8.
I've only had one jittery stock experience and it was thankfully with a test roll. Had the footage been critical, I'd have been very upset. It seems to me that 30+ years of manufacturing something, you ought to have all the goddam bugs out.
I do still love B&W S8 thought. What I will most definitely continue to use S8 for is my own B&W short films, my own experiments, etc. (I've been shooting a very weird in-camera thing, which I hope to string all the 50-foot rolls together and project when finished.) I may even attempt a "serious" short film with B&W S8 - but again, I start doing numbers and 16mm seems the all-around better choice.
My use of S8 would probably go up dramatically if I had a decent, daylight balanced color reversal stock like Ektachrome 100D. (Sorry to obsess, but I think it would be the perfect color S8 stock.)
The clients on that music video I did actually requested S8. But later their DVD people had mild complaints about the grain, wondered why they "didn't just use HD," etc.
I'm currently talking to another band about a video. They thought they wanted S8 (they had seen the other video and liked the look). They're a much bigger band, so I told them no way would I risk their image by shooting exclusively on S8. Some shots, perhaps, but certainly the "performance segment" will be shot on 16mm with a crystal-sync camera. I'm not pulling my hair over sync issues on a music video again.
Converting my S8 camera to crystal seems a waste of money when I can do the same for my Scoopic, then have access to film stock (without being enslaved to Pro8's varying quality of service).
I don't really like K40, and that stock is a big reason for Shooting S8.
I've only had one jittery stock experience and it was thankfully with a test roll. Had the footage been critical, I'd have been very upset. It seems to me that 30+ years of manufacturing something, you ought to have all the goddam bugs out.
I do still love B&W S8 thought. What I will most definitely continue to use S8 for is my own B&W short films, my own experiments, etc. (I've been shooting a very weird in-camera thing, which I hope to string all the 50-foot rolls together and project when finished.) I may even attempt a "serious" short film with B&W S8 - but again, I start doing numbers and 16mm seems the all-around better choice.
My use of S8 would probably go up dramatically if I had a decent, daylight balanced color reversal stock like Ektachrome 100D. (Sorry to obsess, but I think it would be the perfect color S8 stock.)
"I'm the master of low expectations. I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things."â€â€George W. Bush, June 4, 2003
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David M. Leugers
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Not being a pro or even a semi-pro at this point, I have to confess. I have always liked shooting 16mm more than S-8mm. Sometimes S-8mm is just so convenient it is fun to shoot. However, the craftsmanship, quality cameras, lenses, etc., and especially the final result when shooting 16mm is very hard for S-8mm to compete with. Often, the question becomes "why shoot it on S-8mm when I can shoot it on 16mm?" whenever costs is not such a factor. Besides, there are ways to make shooting 16mm less expensive as most of you guys know. Still, S-8mm seems to be making a big comeback and serious use of this format is way up even over the supposed "golden days" of the 1970's.
David M. Leugers
David M. Leugers
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matt5791
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Sorry that was me above.
Matt
Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
You Betcha, EH?
It does have a distinctive look - and I think it will always be useful for that.Anonymous wrote:Super8 has such a distinct look - a really good quality bad look - if you understand me!
But what about when you need a not-so-distinctive look? Or you need to replicate or mimic another particular look? There's little or no versatility to Super8 in this regard.
My favorite thing about S8 are the cameras. Some really kick ass professional-level equipment can be found at affordable prices. I love my Beaulieu 4008 and can often be found just holding it in my hands. My Scoopic is too big to just sit around fondling. (Yah, that sounds perverted.)
16mm gear is coming down in price fast on eBay. Certainly as the digital formats expand, 16mm will experience a surge in amateur usage in the same way miniDV seemed to feed the more aesthetically concerned into S8.
I myself started shooting S8 mostly as a result of extreme aesthetic dissatisfaction with DV formats. Oddly my move into 16mm is more one of cost/value (more bang for my bucks) concerns more than aesthetic.
"I'm the master of low expectations. I'm also not very analytical. You know I don't spend a lot of time thinking about myself, about why I do things."â€â€George W. Bush, June 4, 2003
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matt5791
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Obviously Super8 will always be a complimentary format 99% of the time. And the interesting thing is that it is extreamly complimentary to the ever so perfect images generated by the latest digital technology.
Matt
Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
That is it....It compliments things wonderfully. I get really frustrated with Super8 when I try to make it do things it never was intended to. Time will tell what will happen with S8 and I think that the changes Kodak is making to the line will help things greatly. We need some good stocks for the format to grow.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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matt5791
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I am sure the short bursts of Super8 I keep seeing in advertisments, films etc. are increasing all the time. It is a very useful format to great a different feeling for the audience and contribute to the story.
Matt
Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
In the beginning I thought s8 was perfect for everything, and as I got my beaulieu, I was ready to conquer the world with super8 carts! But then 16mm came in, the stocks, and cameras like my Arri.. and all these were much better suited and versatile.
So yes, my s8 filming went down, and sometimes I regret not having the Arri when I film in s8. Super8 was for me in the beginning for a great part a replacement for 16mm when I had no access to the cameras and filmstock, I realize this afterwards.
But then I do appreciate it more and more for it's own qualities, the portability of the cameras, and the eaaaasy cart changing. OK, the 400" mags change very easy, too - but these 100" daylight spools are a PITA.
K40 is one of my favourite stocks, and one of the main reasons for my s8 filming. Funny is I never had trouble with jitter, although I bought a lot of crap carts from ebay
So yes, my s8 filming went down, and sometimes I regret not having the Arri when I film in s8. Super8 was for me in the beginning for a great part a replacement for 16mm when I had no access to the cameras and filmstock, I realize this afterwards.
But then I do appreciate it more and more for it's own qualities, the portability of the cameras, and the eaaaasy cart changing. OK, the 400" mags change very easy, too - but these 100" daylight spools are a PITA.
K40 is one of my favourite stocks, and one of the main reasons for my s8 filming. Funny is I never had trouble with jitter, although I bought a lot of crap carts from ebay
have fun!
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I see super-8 being used on very small budgets and very small cast features where it's all about the actor and not the background and of course it would need to be shot with the Nizo cameras that are stealthfully quiet. Super-8 only will work if the Producer/DP/and Producer all understand the benefits and limitations of the format. I'd never want to be the guy with a Super-8 camera and the people who hired me thinking like it's 35mm only smaller.
Once the crew gets bigger than a few people, most definitely I would shoot 16mm. However, for on location special effects and speed manipulation including time-exposure, I would most definitely prefer Super-8 versus 16mm in most situations.
Once the crew gets bigger than a few people, most definitely I would shoot 16mm. However, for on location special effects and speed manipulation including time-exposure, I would most definitely prefer Super-8 versus 16mm in most situations.
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Alex
I see super-8 being used on very small budgets and very small cast features where it's all about the actor and not the background and of course it would need to be shot with the Nizo cameras that are stealthfully quiet. Super-8 only will work if the Producer/DP/and Director all understand the benefits and limitations of the Super-8 format. I'd never want to be the guy with a Super-8 camera and the people who hired me thinking like it's 35mm only smaller.
Once the crew gets bigger than a few people, most definitely I would shoot 16mm. However, for on location special effects via speed manipulation that includes slow-motion, time-lapse, and time-exposure, I would most definitely prefer Super-8 versus 16mm in many situations, including shooting music videos.
Once the crew gets bigger than a few people, most definitely I would shoot 16mm. However, for on location special effects via speed manipulation that includes slow-motion, time-lapse, and time-exposure, I would most definitely prefer Super-8 versus 16mm in many situations, including shooting music videos.
I really don't see how S8 would allow a DP to get closer to his subjects....
And, it really doesn't make sense for a feature--I would do everything in my power to convince the director to upgrade from S8 if he wanted to shoot a feature on it. Hell, I may even argue for video depending on the subject matter.
God Luck
And, it really doesn't make sense for a feature--I would do everything in my power to convince the director to upgrade from S8 if he wanted to shoot a feature on it. Hell, I may even argue for video depending on the subject matter.
God Luck