DIY Flm Scanning

[Pj]

I have always wondered why many people who build their own DIY film to digital scanning systems prefer to use machine vision cameras. I know that using DSLR’s can be problematic as their mechanical mirrored shutters can wear out, but most consumer level digital cameras can take pictures quickly and even cameras that are mirror-less have the ability to accept other lenses, like the Samsung NX series. The main thing with these cameras is that they can be cheap, they have a high mega pixel count, they are incredibly easy to use and unlike machine vision cameras they don’t require you to have specialist equipment with your computer. I understand that sequenced images can be stored directly on the camera’s SD card as Jpegs or Raw and then can be processed as a movie later. Has anyone had experience with these cameras?

Pav

[aj]

More recent DSLR have mirror-up/shutter-open options. Do they still have actual shutters?
If they can do single frame on trigger quick enough such cameras could indeed work.
Another technique is to film and register the frames on a trigger signal.

Non SLR cameras don't have a shutter at all and should work.

Some of these cameras have a slide/negative macro option which does automatic conversion. Handy for negative.

[kontrabass888]

Single frame could be done without mechanical shutter, but it will be too difficult to edit.

[aj]

Single frame could be done without mechanical shutter, but it will be too difficult to edit.

Single-frame is how many frame-by-frame ciné digitizers work. Supplied software automatically converts the stills ito a videostream.

[kontrabass888]

Single frame could be done without mechanical shutter, but it will be too difficult to edit.

Single-frame is how many frame-by-frame ciné digitizers work. Supplied software automatically converts the stills ito a videostream.

I couldn't find any info online about the ciné digitizers work. Could you give some info about the software?

[aj]

Single frame could be done without mechanical shutter, but it will be too difficult to edit.

Single-frame is how many frame-by-frame ciné digitizers work. Supplied software automatically converts the stills ito a videostream.

I couldn't find any info online about the ciné digitizers work. Could you give some info about the software?

Plenty discussions in the forum here. Usually adapted projectors with a camera in front of the gate rather than a lens.

[kontrabass888]

Plenty discussions in the forum here. Usually adapted projectors with a camera in front of the gate rather than a lens.

OK, now I understand what did you mean. But as I remember that this system requests a special digital camera with their own software. I am not sure that there are other software which are for all cameras.

[granfer]

Typical "Frame by frame" Softwares for general camera use.........

Capturemate (MAC machines only)
Cinecap (Workprinter software which works with virtually any camera)
Capturix 2000. Etc etc.

Try Googling "Video capture Software"

[Pj]

I have used machine vision cameras only because others were using them, they are complex and work with a fairly high spec computer, in all honesty I can only see one real advantage that they bring and that is they can be fast [what am I missing?]. They can capture at 15 frames per second, but in most DIY set ups people prefer capturing frames at a slower rate between 2fps to 6fps, besides a slower speed doesn't give the computer a tough workout.

Pav

[chrisgavin]

Hi PJ,

I've also been dabbling on and off in DIY transfer over several years, and I think the camera people choose to use for their DIY systems is just a reaction to what's available, what's affordable and sometimes what's closest to hand. It's an ever-evolving marketplace, and I think machine vision cameras were a pretty good choice for a long while when the only other cameras with interchangeable lenses (DSLRs) also came with mechanical shutters.

I've been experimenting with DIY captures various ways over the years... first with a video camera 'wall method', then video camera frame by frame (cinecap), then Sumix machine vision camera, but more recently I've reverted to using my Canon DSLR stills camera.

Now we have CSC (compact system cameras - mirrorless) and also some (pricey) video cameras with interchangeable lenses available, the possibilities have maybe changed a bit.
However, few of us can afford to keep buying new cameras as they come out to test them out for our somewhat specialized requirements!
I've not heard much about the triggering functions of these newer cameras, or the ability to tether them to a PC for direct capture.

The ideal camera would have changeable optics, not too big a sensor (so less extreme macro magnification is needed) , be 'always on', be trigger-able, send its image files straight to the PC, and do this all pretty quickly AND have no mechanical shutter.

For DIYers with good programming skills (not me unfortunately), I think the machine vision cameras still offer some advantages for working directly with the device's API and writing custom capture software that can optimize and stabilize the images during capture.

I'll probably still use my DSLR camera for my next transfers, because I'm shooting low volume 'tests' and less worried about increasing the shutter count on my aging Canon DSLR too much. I might well try using the DSLR in video mode rather than stills mode and see how that Film9 software works.

I'll be keen to hear of any progress anyone has with the newer cameras too.

Happy New Year everybody!
C

[milesandjules]

lumix Gh4 works genius when you set it to silent mode, that way it uses electronic shutter so your not wearing out physical shutter….not only that but it has in built time-lapse and stop motion function so you can trigger it via a wired cable release ..then when you finish it can render the footage in hd or 4k in camera….no computer required. and you can chuck any lens on it ya want via adaptors… It's $1700 camera body.

[chrisgavin]

Hi Milesandjules,

This is great, I've been hoping for a while someone out there would be trying film capture with mirrorless system cameras.
So in 'silent' mode the GH4 has no mechanical shutter, it's all solid state, that's great.
I probably wont be able to buy one of these any time soon, but I'm really curious about this, and would like to fire off a few questions if I may please?

1) How rapidly can the triggering happen in this mode, presumably there's a wait or buffering time while each image is saved?
2) Do the images have to be saved to the card in the camera or can the camera be tethered to a PC to save the frames straight to hard-drive?
3) The triggering input, what kind of remote socket is that, just a simple jack like the Canon DSLRs?
4) Have you got some footage we can see using the GH4 for capture yet?

Hope you don't mind me leaping in with these, I would think there would be others on here keen to find out more about this option.
Many thanks,
C

[granfer]

Keep your mind clearly on the cost implications when you are BUILDING a rig.... it's so easy for that to escalate without you realising!

For example: $1700 for the camera BODY ONLY. That more than half the cost of a complete, working "Retro-8 Professional" from Moviestuff! (I don't use one or have any association with Moviestuff....... just used for a valid comparison).

But if your pocket is so deep it doesn't matter.. don't worry about it!

[Pj]

In my experience costs of DIY projects often escalates, but for me it’s not about building or developing something cheap, instead it’s about achieving something that suits my personal needs and requirements. Since you’ve brought up the Retro 8 scanner from Moviestuff, it costs almost $3000 without shipping; the Lumix mentioned here is $1700, since it’s a camera for taking pictures it doesn’t have to used exclusively for scanning, a projector or transport mechanism is going to be very cheap, the backlight and lens might be expensive, but the total does not have to be as much as $3000.

The thing about digital cameras that interests me the most is where they can store at least 4000 images on their SD card if so the computer doesn’t need to be used during capture and the process can be simple.

Pav

[mr_x]

This is what I do - it's still evolving - capture direct to hard drive then edit in software of choice -



;)