Best widescreen transfer to HD in the US

[Rick Palidwor]

A friend of mine is shooting some negative super 8 with a modified widescreen (super-duper) camera for the Discovery Channel and said he was going to Pro8 for transfer. I told him to think twice about Pro8 but do not know what to recommend instead. Does Flying Spot in Seattle do wide-gate transfers? Anyone else in the US have wide-gate transfers?
Rick

[avplumber]

Pro8 is really only convenient if you use their film and processing package and do it all at once. if you don't use their film or get you stuff transferred in smaller chucks, it can get complicated. i also believe they do SD only for Super8, but not sure. i have used Flying Spot for my Super8 for the last year. i had it all done 4:3 to DigiBeta and really liked it, although it was expensive. make sure you do Standby if you dont need it right away, its about half the cost. but their prices have made me think about getting my own telecine machine from Roger at MovieStuff.tv

back to the point. they can handle SuperDuper8 and they are one of the very few places that does HD transfers, both to HDCAM and to drive via a Final Cut Kona 2 system.

if your friend is in Toronto, i suggest Frame Discreet. their Super8 transfers are really good and they also do SuperDuper8: framediscreet.com

btw, i'm new to this board, so heres a bit about me: i run a Apple Computer Integration and Support company in Jackson Hole, WY called The Audio Visual Plumber. we (i) specialize in Xsan and Final Cut Pro setups. i've worked at Teton Gravity Research for the past 5 years (tetongravity.com) and have only recently gone on my own. i've been a 16mm, Super8 and HD cinematographer for about 10 years and also specialize in online editing including audio sweetening and color correction. i'm currently working on a freestyle motocross TV show for Fuel TV called "The Great Ride Open"

[El Jeffe]

Cool I like a lot of the Teton stuff, well done. Good to have another Actions sports guy on here. I do most of my work in snowboarding.

Welcome!

jeff

[Rick Palidwor]

Pro8 is really only convenient if you use their film and processing package and do it all at once. if you don't use their film or get you stuff transferred in smaller chucks, it can get complicated. i also believe they do SD only for Super8, but not sure. i have used Flying Spot for my Super8 for the last year. i had it all done 4:3 to DigiBeta and really liked it, although it was expensive. make sure you do Standby if you dont need it right away, its about half the cost. but their prices have made me think about getting my own telecine machine from Roger at MovieStuff.tv

back to the point. they can handle SuperDuper8 and they are one of the very few places that does HD transfers, both to HDCAM and to drive via a Final Cut Kona 2 system.

if your friend is in Toronto, i suggest Frame Discreet. their Super8 transfers are really good and they also do SuperDuper8: framediscreet.com

Thanks for the response. I passed it on. My friend needs the best transfer possible and I don't think money is an issue as Discovery Channel is picking up the tab. They are flyng him to Montana to shoot bears in HD and they want some super 8 in the mix. He is in Toronto and I think he ran a test with Frame Discreet and decided he could do better.

Welcome to the board.

Rick

[avplumber]

i've also used Cinepost in Georgia for Super8. i was really happy with their work, but i moved to Flying Spot to keep all my film in Seattle - Alpha Cine for processing, Modern Digital for 16mm transfers and Flying Spot for Super8. it makes shipping and tracking a little less hectic. but your buddy should check them out too.

i'd be interested to hear why he didnt like Frame Discreet.

e

[T-Scan]

An HD transfer at FSFT is probably the best you can get out of S8.

[LloydColeman]

I understand Pro8 just got a new HD transfer unit that is suposed to be the latest and greatest. I have never used them, but are the negative comments about Pro 8 because they had poor equipment and transfer or just working with them in general?

[avplumber]

i have to say that i've never worked with them directly. when i took over film ordering, processing and telecine at Teton Gravity Research 3 years ago, my predecessor told me to avoid Pro8 because of the issues i listed in the earlier post. at the time we were working on TV shows that would have maybe 2 or 3 rolls shot per episode, 13 episodes in a season. if we waited until all the episodes were shot before processing the Super8, then a Pro8 package would work. we would get a 30-40 roll processing and transfer package and be done with it. but we would begin editing a show shortly after it was shot, so working with Pro8 in this way didnt work. plus we always would have the "sock drawer roll" - a forgotten roll from a trip that would have to be transferred at the last minute by itself. Pro8 had pretty high minimums and it was difficult working through that. also, we work a lot with independent cinematographers that would shoot their own film. Pro8 didnt like it when we would have a few random non-Pro8 rolls in the bunch because they weren't part of their package deal.

this all was 2 or 3 years ago and things probably have changed. it would be worth checking them out, especially if they have a new HD telecine. Pro8 carries some great film stocks and if you're shooting an entire project at once, their package prices are great. but for the way that me and my company shot, it wasnt a good fit. but i'm sure that others have nothing but great things to say about Pro8 and rightly so. from what i remember, their transfers looked great.

e

[reflex]

A friend of mine is shooting some negative super 8 with a modified widescreen (super-duper) camera for the Discovery Channel and said he was going to Pro8 for transfer. I told him to think twice about Pro8 but do not know what to recommend instead. Does Flying Spot in Seattle do wide-gate transfers? Anyone else in the US have wide-gate transfers?
Rick

Wow. Super 8 on Discovery HD Canada? Their approved film formats are 35 and 70mm. Super 16mm is listed as an approved upconversion format, but only 25% of your program source material can be upconverted. Super 8 would be a brutally hard sell, unless this content is for SD broadcast only.

[Will2]

An HD transfer at FSFT is probably the best you can get out of S8.

I have to agree with this, mainly because of the colorists that work there,

On the technical side, Pro8mm does have a Millenium II now and that's an amazing machine. Uses analog tubes to "warm up" the footage. I've used one in Dallas on 16mm and been blown away. But then, it all comes down to the person operating the machine and I haven't see anything out of Pro8mm that makes me think they have the best colorists around.

Another little side note, the Shadow that FSFT is a great machine but not quite full 1920x1080 resolution although you couldn't tell the difference. It's a baby brother to the Spirit. Discover Channel is known for having really strict technical standards so make sure you have a conversation with the FSFT guys and make sure it fits with Discover's specs. What they finally deliver may very well be fine.

[Rick Palidwor]

Wow. Super 8 on Discovery HD Canada? Their approved film formats are 35 and 70mm. Super 16mm is listed as an approved upconversion format, but only 25% of your program source material can be upconverted. Super 8 would be a brutally hard sell, unless this content is for SD broadcast only.

I think he's dealing wtih producers in the UK so I am not sure where this is showing but they are the ones who suggested he include some super 8. I presume they want a "retro" look for certain sequences.

This is all I know. He called me out of the blue to try and rent a camera. I told him I wouldn't rent and instead offered to sell him one of my cherished Nikon 8X Super Zooms (modified to super-duper), which he bought after shooting a test. I think he's shooting 500T negative. I believe he is in Montana shooting as we speak.

Rick

[reflex]

I think he's dealing wtih producers in the UK so I am not sure where this is showing but they are the ones who suggested he include some super 8. I presume they want a "retro" look for certain sequences.

That's excellent - It'd definitely add a nice look if they'll let him get away with it.

[adamgarner]

Pro8 has done pretty good work on their HD scanner for me. I am super critical of the results I get and have been truly astounded at how amazing the footage turns out.

I only can say a few negative things. I had one roll come back "greenish." It was likely color corrected a bit weird. Another thing is that the registration on a few rolls seemed wonky. My camera is hard-core awesome... so it was either tight rolls (I used Kodak only... direct from the source) or something weird in telecine. The projected footage didn't wiggle as much

For some HD transfer to check out, I recently did this that they developed and transferred. Tri-X, 200T and 500T

http://www.vimeo.com/1043748

You be the judge. I think it's amazing, and worth 500 bucks an hour.

[reflex]

You be the judge. I think it's amazing, and worth 500 bucks an hour.

Yeah, it looks good. I'd think about running it through an image stabilization plugin, though.

[adamgarner]

I agree, and that's what I mean about the funny registration. It's difficult to tell if the original footage is that jumpy (since it's negative and looks so bizarre when projected), but I think that was introduced during the transfer. I told them about it but they just point back to the camera. I've never had any registration issues like that with my 1014XL-S on ANY other footage.

Also check out http://www.Cinelicious.tv. This is a new company in Hollywood that's doing transfers on a Davinci Diamond Clear HD. It's an upsampled SD telecine, that they upconvert. It costs 1/2 as much as pro 8, and you get about 97% of the HD as Pro8. They also understand modern workflows and can get your footage to you in a variety of formats including ProRes, which is very handy and space saving!!

They're still working out some kinks with workflow, but they're great guys and will make sure you get exactly what you want. Their colorists are very good.

The best part is that you can watch the color session online with a live connection. It's great if you live out of state....