DVD kills 35mm?

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri May 09, 2003 6:56 am

I was talking to an owner of a small theartre not long ago who claimed that there is a new type of professional DVD projection system out now that offers stunning resolution. I cant remember the price tag but it was incredibly high. Anyway, he pointed out that it had a demonstration screening in a cinema in another state. Apparently, previous to the screening, the crowd were very sceptical and were preparing to ridicule it's performance. However, they were soon silenced. The guy that I was talking to said: 'It left 35mm for dead.' That supposedly was the general reaction of the crowd after the screening.

How on earth can this be true? How can any DVD player, no matter how big it's price tag, not only rival 35mm but supercede it in picture quality? I cannot recall the brand or company responsible for this DVD projector but is anyone else here familiar with this particular product?

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri May 09, 2003 9:16 am

They were projecting a DVD that was originally shot on 35mm!

DVD is technology is probably evolving to the point where it can reproduce a 35mm film quite nicely. The good news is that we may one day be able to transfer our Super-8 to an equivalent DVD format.

The bad news is people conveniently leave out just what it is that makes the digital formats look so good, and that would be film.

Post by **teadub** » Fri May 09, 2003 10:38 am

I had the pleasure of seeing an advanced screening (by advanced I mean one day before the home release) of the criterion collection's "monteray pop" DVD here in w. hollywood. And I was supprised at how good the projected image was. its my understanding that pennebaker & crew shot this entire film on eclair 16mm's. and all the footage I had seen (i.e. bootleg) look terrible. but this new transfer looked fantastic.

I have also seen "festen" projected from DVD, which theoretically should reproduce a pretty accurate depiction on the film. (that is +/- film grain from the blow up and video noise and artifacts from the recording process)

however I don't see how DVD (720 x 480 for NTSC) can even compare with a 2k image transfer let alone a 35mm frame. not to mention the higher end scaning process used in advanced cgi and digital stuff in the 3k to 4k range. What do they do that is new? Some sort of interpolation techinique?

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri May 09, 2003 10:59 am

Well, maybe all those films that are made about drug dealing will finally pay off! 8O

You know how the really really concentrated stash gets diluted a hundred fold and it's still good stuff. Well, that's what film is!

I've also heard they are experimenting with multi-layered DVD's, where they can store much more info on a DVD by going deeper than the surface layer. It's also been six or seven years since DVD's were introduced to the public, it seems that they must have made some huge breakthroughs in data storage for the DVD format over the last 6 years.

Post by **S8 Booster** » Fri May 09, 2003 11:05 am

I read some about this recently and from my softdisk (With reservations) they can now pack 28Gb into a multi layer DVD disk compared to the 4.7 on DVD-Rs.

Might make a difference.

R

Post by **Angus** » Fri May 09, 2003 1:12 pm

it is still the case that nothing else looks like genuine celluloid.

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Fri May 09, 2003 1:58 pm

I read an article on this too. The humorous comments were the thuds during the demonstration of Kodak executives fainting in shock.

It is the future, and Kodak are heavily into it. Of course the real worry for cinemas will be that the technology progresses into the home. The hi-res digital projector onto the home wide screen. Add the flat loudspeakers on the wall and one will be able to watch cinema type shows in ones own home.

Personally I am quite impressed with the quality of DVDs on my 28" widescreen TV. It is one with an old style tube, not a fancy flat screen.

Post by **mattias** » Fri May 09, 2003 2:04 pm

wait a minute, what are we really talking about here? a new dvd disc? a new digital projector? a new dvd resolution (hd)? apples, oranges, pears, mangos, perhaps with some cayenne and walnuts. yummy...

/matt

Post by **S8 Booster** » Fri May 09, 2003 2:12 pm

or cherries?

Restructuring my softdisk tells me that I actually? watched BBCworld.com Ã‚Â´s Dateline which had a go on it and there was zhiz German Guru from Sony or someting that kept a (one) DVD in his hand.

=> No further data avail
=> END OF DATA

R

Post by **MovieStuff** » Fri May 09, 2003 2:13 pm

wahiba wrote:Of course the real worry for cinemas will be that the technology progresses into the home. The hi-res digital projector onto the home wide screen. Add the flat loudspeakers on the wall and one will be able to watch cinema type shows in ones own home.

A moot point, IMHO. Homes already have kitchens, tables and chairs and some people are better cooks than you'd find in most any resturant. However, none of this has affected the existence of resturants nor the level of business they enjoy. If anything, people that like to cook really enjoy the dining experience and will cherish and share a good resturant with family and friends. Likewise, people inclined to put in a home cinema do so because they love the movie-going experience so much that they try to re-create it at home. Both will still frequent the local resturant or cinema because of the experience of fine cinema and fine dining, even if they can get something similar at home. It's a communal thing, not a personal thing, which is why dining with friends and watching a great movie with an enthusiastic crowd is always more fun than doing it at home, regardless of how good a cook one might be or how great the DVD and sound system is.

Anyway, my two cents.....

Roger

Post by **Herb Montes** » Fri May 09, 2003 2:52 pm

Steven Spielberg himself said he will continue shooting on film until they close down the last lab on Earth.

Post by **mattias** » Fri May 09, 2003 3:05 pm

MovieStuff wrote:A moot point, IMHO. Homes already have kitchens...

yeah, and don't forget about the millions of kids who go to the cinemas mainly to hang out, make out or just be somewhere where their parents are not. and i'd be very surprised if everybody would want to transform their living rooms into movie theaters even if the technology got affordable. i wouldn't.

/matt

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Fri May 09, 2003 4:27 pm

teadub wrote:I have also seen "festen" projected from DVD, which theoretically should reproduce a pretty accurate depiction on the film. (that is +/- film grain from the blow up and video noise and artifacts from the recording process)

however I don't see how DVD (720 x 480 for NTSC) can even compare with a 2k image transfer let alone a 35mm frame. not to mention the higher end scaning process used in advanced cgi and digital stuff in the 3k to 4k range. What do they do that is new? Some sort of interpolation techinique?

It's hard to tell if you already know this, but Festen was shot on crappy little Sony domestic DV cameras. It may seem obvious to some - I rather liked the look of it, for being so blatantly, unashamedly video. For me the film is superb, and I find it refreshing that somebody made a dramatically superb film on DV, the appearance of which become insignificant because it is a piece of drama first and foremost. I only stick with film because I'm a snob and I want to seperate myself from the video hordes.

Lucas

Post by **Cranium** » Fri May 09, 2003 7:29 pm

We're not talking about a single store-bought DVD here.
The content is delivered to theatres on several DVD-ROMs, then loaded into whatever rig the theatre's got.
Sorry, that's as deep as I can recall without looking stuff up... I just wanted to quickly note that we're not talking about 8 megabit 720x480 29.97 MPEG2s.

Post by **pheboglobi** » Fri May 09, 2003 8:22 pm

Many of the digital projection systems I've seen use really good lenses and they look clean, whereas many of the more common 35mm projectors look like they haven't been cleaned in a decade -- and many don't use top of the line projection lenses either. If you have ever seen a 35mm print from camera original on a good projection system... man, digital has a long ways to go. Unfortunately for us, they make inter-positives and internegatives which kills the quality dramatically in the release prints, whereas the digital projection comes from a good quality scan of the original or the print or directly off the hard-drive if they did special effects.

But if the theatre chains decide to go to all digital systems, that's really bad for Kodak, they make a helluva lot of cash from release prints. After that I wonder if they would even bother to make camera originals anymore, much less spend anything on R&D for new stocks. Of course, that may take a while, as the entire planet is pretty much on the same 35mm projection standard, and at moment, most theatres are reluctant to spend $2 million+ USD on a single projector/delivery system.

But when and if digital film projection takes over, film still won't die. There will be some ingenious individual(s) cooking up film stocks in his/her basement (metaphorically speaking, I imagine it takes more space than that and may/may not involve culinary skills), and maybe I'll be able to pick up an Arri 535A for a couple grand on eBay to shoot film with...

--Garrett