feature on super 8, a good idea?

Post by **mattias** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:07 pm

hey,

so it looks like i'm making my first feature in november. it's a low budget film funded by art people and grants, so i can do whatever i like. :-) the idea was to shoot it on hdv, but a feature on super 8 has always been a dream and this could be my chance, so should i or should i not? i'm shooting for 14 days straight, documentary style with very little dialogue, all scripted though and no real improv. i'm thinking of buying a canon 1014xls for the purpose, tfg sync it, and shoot 140 carts of v2 200t. the length of the film is 70 minutes so that makes a 5:1 shooting ratio. with processing and telecine this is just what my budget allows.

the next question is is it a good idea to shoot exteriors on super 8 and interiors on [h]dv? i've tried something similar and while the look is very different between them they actually cut together fine from scene to scene, especially if you dirty down the dv a bit.

/matt

Post by BK » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:23 pm

Why not? No regrets later.

Guess you could do a take on HDV as well besides the Super 8 just for insurance.

For the exterior scenes you need to tone down the sharpness of the HDV a little bit, with the internal menu settings of the camera and or with a soft filter in front of the lens for matching it as close as possible to the characteristics of the film. I know it's hard to cut between the two mediums without any tweaking in post as well, but it'll work. Would anyone notice the difference unless it's really drastic, or if they are bored with the story?

Good luck!

Bill

Post by **mathis** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:24 pm

What's the subject matter of your film?

Post by **Patrick** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:24 pm

"the next question is is it a good idea to shoot exteriors on super 8 and interiors on [h]dv? i've tried something similar and while the look is very different between them they actually cut together fine from scene to scene, especially if you dirty down the dv a bit."

That sort of reminds me of those 70s and early 80s BBC TV shows where exteriors were shot on 16mm and the interiors were shot on video. On shows like The Goodies, Fawlty Towers, The Good Life etc - the difference was like day and night. However, it sounds like youve managed to make those differences less noticeable.

Post by BK » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:49 pm

Patrick wrote: That sort of reminds me of those 70s and early 80s BBC TV shows where exteriors were shot on 16mm and the interiors were shot on video. On shows like The Goodies, Fawlty Towers, The Good Life etc - the difference was like day and night.

I am sure they will try to match the video sequences with the outdoor film ones if they had the tools available in post to do so back then. And back in those days we were a lot less sophisticated, we didn't really care about the difference in picture quality, it was the content that matter. Those were the good old heydays of television.

Bill

Post by **downix** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:22 pm

I'd just do it all on Super8 (which has better low-light handling if you use the V2 500T film anyways) and however it turns out, call it an art film. 8)

Post by **audadvnc** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:35 pm

Will you have backup cameras? Can you trust a Super 8 camera to work through 140 carts of film without a problem? Can you reshoot in the event of camera or cartridge failure? Are you going to barney the noisy cam? Will your production & post crews think you've flipped, using this antique format?

If you can get enough light indoors, I'd say go for broke & do S8 everywhere, unless you're intentionally looking for that 70's BBC look.

Post by **ronnoco** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:37 pm

I have seen some of your indoor filming and it has looked fantastic to me...why even consider shooting video ?...if your budget allows and you have the resources shoot it all on film...and you know it will look sooooooooo much better..

Good luck with the project...it sounds great...I hope you have lots of fun with it...

Post by **mattias** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:40 pm

mathis wrote:What's the subject matter of your film?

it's a dreamy and hallucinous (is that a word) journey of a man rediscovering the woman he once fell in love with. it takes place in the canaries.

/matt

Post by **David M. Leugers** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:43 pm

Shooting a feature on S-8mm film only makes sense for someone who WANTS to shoot on film. One thing is certain, if you do, your film will be special right out of the gate. It will not be just another DV (or HD) feature among scores of such work.
Based on your work from your music video shot on 64T, I would encourage you to continue your exploration of the pallete of S-8mm film.

David M. Leugers

Post by **mattias** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:45 pm

ronnoco wrote:you know it will look sooooooooo much better..

yeah, that's not one of my problems. it's the breaking down of cameras, the non standard post path, the jamming carts, jitter, a limited shooting ratio, and so on that are. also the clips you've seen have been carefully lit, which won't happen this time, see "documentary style". the aim is to use nothing but a battery powered kino and a reflector for the entire film. not for budget reasons but to be able to move ultra fast and grab situations on the fly before they disappear forever.

/matt

Post by **MovieStuff** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:16 pm

Is shooting double super 8 a possibility? I have a Canon Scoopic DS8 that is rock steady if you can find the stock you want to use. You're welcome to borrow it, if you need.

Roger

Post by **reflex** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:49 pm

Why not shoot in 16 or Super 16 instead? I know it's not quite as romantic, but if your film is at all popular it gives you many more options as far as distribution.

The main reasons to shoot S8 seem to be a love of the format and being able to promote your work as a feature-length S8 film.

Post by **mattias** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:01 pm

reflex wrote:Why not shoot in 16 or Super 16 instead?

because cameras are bigger, or noisier if they're small, and require time loading and unloading especially a 100' one. the main reason though is that i'm not sure the bouncers at the night clubs will let you in with one, and so on, again with reference to "docu style". if i'm doing it on hdv it would be an a1 or similar for the same reason.

The main reasons to shoot S8 seem to be a love of the format and being able to promote your work as a feature-length S8 film.

indeed. 16mm doesn't create a unique look, so in that case hdv would produce pretty much the same result, whereas s8 would make it stand out.

roger, thanks a lot for the offer, i'll consider it for sure. can you get ds8 directly from kodak? i get very good discounts from them that i wouldn't be able to get elsewhere.

/matt

Post by **RET80** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:09 pm

Patrick wrote:"the next question is is it a good idea to shoot exteriors on super 8 and interiors on [h]dv? i've tried something similar and while the look is very different between them they actually cut together fine from scene to scene, especially if you dirty down the dv a bit."

That sort of reminds me of those 70s and early 80s BBC TV shows where exteriors were shot on 16mm and the interiors were shot on video. On shows like The Goodies, Fawlty Towers, The Good Life etc - the difference was like day and night. However, it sounds like youve managed to make those differences less noticeable.

Ah, Doctor Who.
That's when I first began to notice as a child that there were different types of film and video. Before hand I thought it was all done by one kind of camera and then just worked with in post.

Anyway, shoot on super 8 on both I would say. Both interior and exterior as long as you have the applicable funds for it. If you plan to shoot with HDV indoors I suggest using software like magic bullet to give it the closest effect to film as possible if that is what you are trying to achieve for of course.