Kahl UT18 is Velvia- new evidence!

[Muckymuck]

I'm on a roll today...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... mot_widget

[onsuper8]

http://onsuper8.blogspot.com/2007/04/fi ... anais.html

[morales72]

Hi to all.

Kahl UT18 shouldn't be pointed as Velvia 50D because it isn't so. I've just got from the lab my first 15m of this stock (60m S8 can) and I can assure it's completely different from Velvia. I got it transfered (and color corrected since it seems to be a recaned tungsten stock, all blueish without filter) and I will be glad to upload it if I can get it hosted. I tried both at 40ASA and 50ASA (1/3 compensation, slight underexposure) with a Canon 1014xls and seems to be ok. There weren't any significant differences between both speeds.

Best regards,

Morales

[Muckymuck]

Did you get it processed at Kahl? It could still be Velvia with the difference in look being due to their infamous poor processing.

I always assumed it would be some obscure ORWO stock as they still make black and white movie films with a similar number coding system. Does anyone know for sure?

[richard p. t.]

Kahl has been selling a product with the name UT-18 for quite a few years. About a year ago I was talking with them about UT-18 and they said I should wait as they would have a new colour reversal stock available. I assumed that was going to be VELVIA. Nothing changed on their web site, etc and i had assumed that it came to nothing. But could there be a new version of UT-18? Could it now be VELVIA where it was previously ORVO or the like? You would think they would make a song and dance about it. Could it also be that the stock Morales received was the old UT-18? Or is that just wishful thinking? Tell us Morales, was it any good (aside from the colour balance issues you had)? What is the grain like, and the colour saturation?

[christoph]

strange, kahl clearly lists it as 50ASA daylight stock, and it would be odd is they mislabel their own custom films..

they say that it's slightly grainy and therefore suited for a super8 look on TV (quote: "Durch seine leicht körnige Struktur erreicht er hervorragend den
Super 8- Effekt in der TV-Produktion!"). doesnt exactly sound like velvia to me.
the only other daylight balanced stocks around that ISO that i'm avare of are Fuji RTP II and Kodak EPR, both at 64D, both of them would be a bit grainier than velvia with less saturation.

also strange that even though kahl has a (well earned) reputation for being overpriced they sell this film for 25EUR plus VAT, processing and worldwide return shipping (and for 22 EUR in quantities of ten).

[Daniel]

referring to the link onsuper8.org posted here :

Do you remember that Super8France did said in the past their HR1 film was a completely new film ? ... of course this was not true... now we know it is only K-40 remanufactured....

The problem with Super8France is that that they don't understand that super-8 world is much more pro that what they think and also that there are also many pro users in France that were using Super-8 much time before Super8France discovered the format. Just to mention the Cinedia lab that were operating on VNF and ECN-2 process for super-8 back in 2000.

I hope super8france will be more humble, I don't have any interest in conflict, just to say that it is better to be humble and that propaganda will not conduce them anywhere.

Regards,
Daniel

[richard p. t.]

referring to the link onsuper8.org posted here :



The problem with Super8France is that that they don't understand that super-8 world is much more pro that what they think and also that there are also many pro users in France that were using Super-8 much time before Super8France discovered the format. Just to mention the Cinedia lab that were operating on VNF and ECN-2 process for super-8 back in 2000.

I hope super8france will be more humble, I don't have any interest in conflict, just to say that it is better to be humble and that propaganda will not conduce them anywhere.

Regards,
Daniel

This is a silly post.

[christoph]

This is a silly post.

no, i completely agree with daniel...
if you want to be taken seriously, be upfront about what you offer. if it's a good product, you can even be upfront about it's limitations (see rogers workprinters). trying to keep things secret will only make people suspicious and cranky.
++ christoph ++

[Daniel]

Thanks Christoph!

As you know richard p. t. in internet, a lot of bluff is possible. Don't you remenber that HR1 was supposed to be completely new emultion ?
Well we now know of course it isn't a new stock.

Best Regards,
Daniel

[S8 Booster]

to me it appears that super8france generally has a communication/language problem more than specificly a lack of trust + possibly some "business secret" issues which seem to arise the well known "issues".

shoot.....

[super8france]

Sorry, HR1 is a new film because it's a new manufacture and a new concept and services.

I made a mistake with UT18, it is not Velvia 50D I confused with the UT17 who was of Velvia 50D.
UT18 is an excellent film which I use. The grain is really fine.
I made a test and colors are natural.

I prefer the Kahl UT 18 because colors are more natural than the Velvia.

[Daniel]

Sorry, HR1 is a new film because it's a new manufacture and a new concept and services.

OK. Thanks for clarifying.

Regards,
Daniel

[morales72]

Thanks for clarifying too. It would be bad for business to sell it as velvia because it's easy to demonstrate it isn't that stock.
I think we have to learn to like or dislike stock for what they are. I wish ut18 was velvia myself, but I was aware it was most unlikely to happen.
To answer your questions, it's a grainy stock, even more than E64T but further tests are needed. Canon has a reputation of "soft" lenses so would be great to test it with a leicina special, beaulieu, etc.
Colour shift could be due to age? I guess is still old svema/orwo recanned stock and the one I got is a 60m can due by 11/2009. Maybe someone with more expertise can assure this.
I got it processed here in Madrid. Basically it was a test that started a year ago in the spanish forum. I posted my questions about kahl since I was interested in lowering film costs every which way. A senior forum member made a test with DS8 but he wasn't convinced with results, specially about colors. A few months later, I talked to another forum member that did a control test of diy E6 process with ut18 and e64t together, same results. I was buying stock and I asked the seller about kahl b/w negative. He offerded me up21 and I took it. He was interested in doing a test with ut18 to check that senior forumer results and I agreed to do it. A week later I gave him the cart and just returned to me transfered this week.
I tend to put in my kaccemas whatever stock I get on my hands, even e64t and plus-x from bad carts.
I conclusion, I think IMHO that ut18 in DS8 122m or S8 60m is a cheap option to put color stock in your kaccemas (not the already manufactured ut18 cart) and could be that particular look you are looking for, but, if you are looking for velvia look, go for velvia. Again, if someone gives me some hosting, I will be glad to upload my test, otherwise I will have to do it via youtube, which I think will be unfair and won't prove my point.

Hope this helps, please, feel free to ask.

Best regards,

Morales

[super8france]

I don't think that is bad for my business because the Kahl UT17 exist but only beta version.
Since december 2006, I used the Kahl UT 18. This film is not a grainy stock, impossible !. It's a excellent film for me.
I shooted in my city (Lille) and colours, grain are excellent better that E64T.