"Pass The Cart" project, Official Thread

Collaborative film projects
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audadvnc
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Post by audadvnc »

etimh wrote:And won't ten feet in 24fps be much shorter (time-wise) than 18fps?
No. 10 feet is 10 feet at either speed. :lol:

Oh, alright. At 24fps you have about 33 seconds, at 18fps about 44 seconds. You'll get less fluid movement at 18fps, but you can work that characteristic to your favor given some thought on your subject & shooting style.
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Post by etimh »

audadvnc wrote:Oh, alright. At 24fps you have about 33 seconds, at 18fps about 44 seconds.
Take the example of shooting a person walking down the street. Let's say I have two cameras, one shooting exactly ten feet of film at 24fps and one shooting exactly ten feet at 18fps, getting the same shot. Obviously, the ten feet in the 24fps camera will burn up the film faster, and, end of shot. The 18fps camera will continue to shoot for a few more seconds, and, end of shot.

The 18fps shot will be a "longer" take and will show the person walking further down the street. So if these two sequences were edited together, for whatever reason, and were conformed for proper realistic playback speed, the 18fps segment would be "longer" (time-wise), compared to the segment shot in 24fps.

So in the edited sequences of the "pass the cart" film, if there is no manipulation in the digital editing, and speed is conformed to the filmmaker's intent (no timelapse, etc., just people moving at natural speed); those individuals who shot at 24fps will have "shorter" sequences than those that shot at 18fps.

Obvious, right? Or am I misunderstanding something? :?
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Post by audadvnc »

In the words of our beloved President, I believe you "misunderestimate the situation."

Assuming film playback is done at 18fps. a strip of film shot at 18fps will play at normal speed, whereas a strip of film shot at 24fps will play slow.

Conversely, for film projected at 24fps. a strip of film shot at 18fps will play fast, whereas a strip of film shot at 24fps will play at normal speed.

As I understand, the project originator intends to transfer this footage at 18fps and a 10' section will play for 44 seconds. So if you shoot at 18fps also, your characters will move at normal speed. But no matter what speed you shoot at, your 10' will have a 44 second duration in the final presentation.
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Post by tlatosmd »

audadvnc wrote:In the words of our beloved President, I believe you "misunderestimate the situation."
Makes me wanna call Bush El Presidente from now on, like an South-American dictator generallisimo. :P
audadvnc wrote:As I understand, the project originator intends to transfer this footage at 18fps and a 10' section will play for 44 seconds. So if you shoot at 18fps also, your characters will move at normal speed. But no matter what speed you shoot at, your 10' will have a 44 second duration in the final presentation.
I intend to shoot a card at the beginning of my part reading technical information including my framerate. I'd suppose since we'll get it telecined, Mojo could take care about each participant's framerate in NLE.
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Post by etimh »

audadvnc wrote:Assuming film playback is done at 18fps. a strip of film shot at 18fps will play at normal speed, whereas a strip of film shot at 24fps will play slow.

Conversely, for film projected at 24fps. a strip of film shot at 18fps will play fast, whereas a strip of film shot at 24fps will play at normal speed.
Of course, I understand this. But this has no meaning in relationship to the scenario I outlined above. I said, assuming that everything was conformed to realistic speed, meaning that everyone walked down the street at a real, naturalistic pace, more action time would transpire in the 18fps shot and thus the sequence would be longer. Pretty sure this is correct.
audadvnc wrote:As I understand, the project originator intends to transfer this footage at 18fps and a 10' section will play for 44 seconds.
Where did you get this from? The last comment from mojohey on the other thread here:

viewtopic.php?t=12714&start=60&postdays ... highlight=

was this comment:

"30 seconds of film assuming its 24fps (yes 10ft)..."

This is at the bottom of page 5.
audadvnc wrote:So if you shoot at 18fps also, your characters will move at normal speed. But no matter what speed you shoot at, your 10' will have a 44 second duration in the final presentation.
That's exactly my point. If people shoot at 24fps (because they are under the impression that "it doesn't matter"), and the final editing maintains a 44 second segment length in the final edit, their footage will look slow. And I, for one, don't want this in my segment.
tlatosmd wrote:I'd suppose since we'll get it telecined, Mojo could take care about each participant's framerate in NLE.
But won't this mess with the image if your framerate has to be "taken care of" (either by speeding up or slowing down)? Why not just decide uniformly before we get too far down the line?

Tim
Last edited by etimh on Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by freddiesykes »

I shot at 24fps, counting to a total of 30 seconds in my head, but I stopped at roughly 10 feet (more like 9.5) just so the last person with the cart isn't screwed out of a some time.

All this is under the assumption that 50 feet of Super8 at 24fps is 2 minutes 30 seconds - so five people per cart.

By the way Tim, did the cart arrive today? If not today, should be tomorrow, or at the latest Monday.
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Post by etimh »

freddiesykes wrote:By the way Tim, did the cart arrive today? If not today, should be tomorrow, or at the latest Monday.
Not today. And thanks for the framerate info--I'm going with 24fps. I want it to look good no matter how much "screen time" I end up having. :wink:

Tim
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Post by flatwood »

Sounds good. 24 it is.
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Post by livio »

eventually printed, here a couple of pics from the set:
Image
Image
bye livio
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Post by flatwood »

Nice pics, Livio. Is that you with the cam in the first pic??? I hope I can find someone to take some pics for me. Anyway, great pics. Thanks, really enjoyed looking at them.
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Post by sooper8fan »

livio wrote:
eventually printed, here a couple of pics from the set...
bye livio
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Are these photos from what you were shooting with your 10feet? Or are they something else?
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Post by Arislan »

etimh wrote: Take the example of shooting a person walking down the street.
Ok. BANG!

Let's say I have two cameras, one shooting exactly ten feet of film at 24fps and one shooting exactly ten feet at 18fps, getting the same shot.
Ooops you meant with a camera.
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Post by livio »

flatwood wrote:is that you with the cam in the first pic???
yes it's me.
and it's me also the one on the bike.
It was the first time for me that I was also acting in a movie of mine, probably inspired by Jacques Tati's jour de fete? ;-) So I shot some takes (also one from the bike itself) and some were shot by Carlo (the guy you can see his feets on the left of the second pic).
the actress is Monica (one of my favourite actress, of course), pics were from Lorenzo, many thanks to him
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Post by sooper8fan »

livio wrote:
yes it's me.
and it's me also the one on the bike.
It was the first time for me that I was also acting in a movie of mine, probably inspired by Jacques Tati's jour de fete? So I shot some takes (also one from the bike itself) and some were shot by Carlo (the guy you can see his feets on the left of the second pic).
the actress is Monica (one of my favourite actress, of course), pics were from Lorenzo, many thanks to him
so, were you shooting this footage for the "Pass The Cart" project or are these photos from another unrelated project?
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Post by flatwood »

livio wrote:... probably inspired by Jacques Tati's jour de fete? ;-)... pics were from Lorenzo, many thanks to him
Im not familiar with Jacques Tati (someone new to check out, thanks) but Lorenzo did a super job. Interesting how fast that shadow moved across your scene.

Nice location too.

best,
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