Do NOT buy from "neverintel" on eBay! SCAM!

Post by **Arislan** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm

This will not be of major interest to most, but if you are considering buying Super 8/Single-8 cameras from this person, you should be alerted.

I won an item from Fabian Stoll, user neverintel on eBay. As I usually do, I sent the payment immediately through Paypal. He then sent me this:

Hello,

you have won the Fujica ZC 1000 NEW camera.

Please note that if you want to pay via PayPal you MUST add 7% PayPal
fees of total amount. If you pay via international money order, you
don't have to pay the PayPal fees.

You can choose between the following shipping methods:
insuranced, total 392,52 Euro (with PayPal 419,99 Euro)
insuranced airmail, total 424,52 Euro (with PayPal 454,23 Euro)

bank account data:

Fabian Stoll
(SNIP)

Have a nice day
Fabian Stoll

I wrote him back telling him it was against eBay rules to charge buyers a surcharge for Paypal fees. He did not reply. I then asked him if the item was shipping soon. He answered with this:

Well, but in all my actions you can see the sentence "Die Ware wird
nach Geldeingang umgehend versandt. Bitte zur schnelleren Abwicklung
ÃƒÅ“berweisung Plus oder PayPal verwenden. Bei PayPal Zahlung trÃƒÂ¤gt der KÃƒÂ¤ufer
die PayPal-GebÃƒÂ¼hren!". It is written under "payment advices of the
seller". So I inform the bidders, if they want to pay via PayPal, then they
have to pay the fees. So everybody can decide whether he wants to bid
or not and which payment method he will use. THe bidders can decide
theirselves whether they want to pay fees using PayPal or don't pay fees
using international money order.
So I can ship only when the fees are paid.

Have a nice day
Fabian Stoll

So I answered:

> So I can ship only when the fees are paid.

I will forward this letter to eBay and Paypal and see that your account is cancelled. In the meantime I suggest you send me a refund to avoid legal problems on your side.

Have a nice day.

So now I'm without my money and my camera. I sent the matter to eBay, will email Paypal soon. I don't care if he writes in the body of the description that he will charge a fee, he isn't allowed to do it. He could have written anything, if it's against the rules he would have no way of enforcing it.

I am truly mad at this. Ebay says I will hear from them 24-48 hours from now, but I wonder what my chances are of seeing all of my money back.

My letter to eBay included the forwarded mail where he asks for 7%. Then
I wrote:

Customer concern: I won the item from user neverintel. I sent him
payment through PayPal immediately. But then I got this letter from him
asking for 7% Paypal fees. He never said he would add 7% to the total
price. I further informed him that it was against eBay rules to surcharge an
item for Paypal fees. He replied that he will only ship once I pay
those fees. I don't have the money to pay any "fees". Now he has my money and will not ship me the camera.
I ask that you please apply the appropriate penalty to this seller,
including account cancellation if applicable, because what he is doing is
blackmail, illegal in any country on this planet, including his own.
I will forward you his message saying he will not ship until I comply
with his blackmail, once I hear from you. Thanks.

I hope eBay will do something.

Post by aj » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:26 pm

If your Paypal payment was charged to a creditcard you can order them to cancel the payment as the seller is not delivering.

eBay is no partner in this deal. Despite they own paypal. You can also claim your money back from Paypal but this will take much longer.

Post by **Dr_Strange_Love** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:36 pm

Arislan: I hope you get your money back as soon as possible! What he did was completly disrespectful.

Post by **audadvnc** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:47 pm

But as always, you can trap more flies with honey than vinegar. Perhaps your tone was a bit too strident and unyielding, especially considering the other party already had your money? Sounds like a prescription for failure.

Post by **super8man** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:22 pm

And market conditions are such that even a 7% surcharge (leaving bad feedback after you get the item and then reporting them after you get the item) still means that ZC1000 was pretty darn cheap (Well under $500 US of the thing).

Post by **flatwood** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:51 pm

Even worse to me is that he is asking 7% which is more than Paypal charges him for the transaction. Thanks for putting the word out on this seller and I hope you get it all resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Post by **charles8** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:10 pm

IMHO ebay and their paypal system are only interested in making money, thier complaint procedures are slow and heavily come down on their own side, I went through a long complaint procedure with them, the camera was paid with paypal and was covered under the so called protection scheme, I spent money sending the camera to Germany to have it expertly checked to show the camera was faulty, which it was, it had been listed as fully working and technically flawless, and yet they still claimed it did not fall under the heading, " significantly not as described" the camera a Braun Nizo 6056 had a faulty lightmeter, two Plus x films came back nearly black, the trick button did not work, as has been shown on ITV ( UK TV Station) ebay are hard to get hold of when things go wrong, automated email responses are what they like...

Post by **lunni** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:27 pm

Arislan, seriously I cannot see what your problem is. I do understand it's against ebay rules to charge paypal fee from buyer, but you knew he was going to do that before you placed your bid, right? Why didn't you ask him before bidding?

Btw you really should't post anyones bank account details on a public forum.

Website · Post by **BigBeaner** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:35 pm

So this guy isn't just charging a fee for pay pal but charging more than paypal would charge for it? This is insanity. Good luck with this, this is something I have never heard of. Human Ingenuity on Ebay is amazing, so many ways people have figured out how to scam us.

What's next? Charging us for their Ebay listing fees?

Post by **scott** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:42 pm

You could have just sent a money order and avoided the whole mess. You were given a choice in that respect, and chose to still pay with PayPal. For all the heartache you will now encounter, was it really worth it?

I myself use paypal to receive/send payment and never ask for any excess fees. For the speed and convenience, I think it is worth it.

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:00 pm

"You could have just sent a money order and avoided the whole mess. You were given a choice in that respect, and chose to still pay with PayPal. For all the heartache you will now encounter, was it really worth it?"

It's not a valid choice when one of the options is counter to eBay's service policy.

Post by **flatwood** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:18 pm

The ebay feedback system is a good place to size up who your trading partners are. My ebay ID is the same one I use here and across the internet.

Hang in there!! Right will prevail. Of course, you can always send the addl percent and get the cam shipped out and file to get your 7% refunded and the seller gets a black mark and perhaps bad feedback (you risk retaliation if you do it first with a bad apple however so don't fall for it!!)

Ebay and Paypal are great. They have enabled me to trade around the world. I love it. They even convert the currency for me and only charge with a small %.

Post by **audadvnc** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:48 pm

flatwood wrote:The ebay feedback system is a good place to size up who your trading partners are.

Bingo. I just left my first ever "neutral" feedback, for somebody who shipped me a Beaulieu camera minus the eyecup, lens hood and rewind key shown in the posting photo. I included the line "I am disappointed" in the feedback. That (plus the two recent "negatives" he's gotten) should be a clue to that seller's potential clients that he's not quite on the ball, ethics-wise. But you've got to check their feedback first before you commit.

Post by **flatwood** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:21 pm

audadvnc wrote: But you've got to check their feedback first before you commit.

Lesson well learned!! The few times Ive felt burned over an ebay trade was because I missed the clues in the seller's feedback or bid to sellers with low or no feedback.

Post by **Arislan** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:21 pm

lunni wrote:Arislan, seriously I cannot see what your problem is. I do understand it's against ebay rules to charge paypal fee from buyer, but you knew he was going to do that before you placed your bid, right?

He wrote it in german. My grandparents are german, but I myself am not. He might as well have written "Wann ist das git nunstruck und slotermeyer? Ja, Beiherhund dass oder wer die flipperwald gersput."

He could also have said "send my payment in cocaine", it doesn't make it within eBay rules.

Btw you really should't post anyones bank account details on a public forum.

Unless he sends me the camera, I'm beyond caring.