photographer's rights in spain

[Blue Audio Visual]

If all legislation was crystal-clear and explicit then Spanish lawyers would be up in arms as they would be out of a job.

I'm no expert in Spanish - I've never been to Spain, and only read it (with some difficulty) because my French is OK and I know a bit of Italian, so I'm supremely unqualified to comment on the semantics of the word 'obras'.

The other thing the bear in mind is the qualification 'permanentemente' - Just how long does something have to be there to be considered permanent???? I'm not even sure if 'permanently' is an idiomatic translation in this instance anyway.

[steve hyde]

....It is a question of what constitutes "works" in legal terms. Talking to a lawyer is the quickest and easiest way to find out.


Steve

[MovieStuff]

This said, if someone's image is in your film without their consent, they must prove that the image is in fact them..... thus the case for shallow depth of field.

and they must prove why this is a problem for them. the mere act of taking somebody's picture is rarely a crime. invasion of privacy is, slander/libel is, harassment is, and so on. in some countries including sweden you can't use images of people for advertising but for pretty much anything else, apparently in the uk even for ads. it's a jungle.

i got some pm answers suggesting that the rules are very similar to those in sweden, i.e. i'm fine if i just get releases from every performer and let whoever passes by just be a passer by, which is how i was planning on doing it. if somebody asks me what i'm using the pictures for i'll get their oral consent on tape which isn't a formal release but proves that they were aware of the situation.

/matt

You can always post a sign that says you are working on a film and that anyone entering that area automatically gives permission to use their likeness. I used to have to do that when shooting commercials at restuarants, etc. Isn't always convenient but helps to weed out problems before they happen.

Beyond that, we can all theorize quite accurately about the limited legal standing of someone that accidentaly got photographed in the background or the limited legal rights of the owners of a building that is in obvious public view -HOWEVER- anyone can file a lawsuit and most lawsuits are filed under the assumption that you will settle financially for less that it would cost you to successfully defend your legal rights.

Therefore, it should be remembered that in virtually all countries with a real court system, civil lawsuits are rarely about justice and almost always about harrassing the other person into submission through legal and finanical intimidation, and often without any real legal standing to support the plaintiff's position. The mere act of a possible lawsuit is reason enough for a distribution company to not pick up a movie, even if their own legal department agreed that such a lawsuit could be won. Who needs the hassle? In the end, it matters less about what someone can legally do and more about what they might try to do to make your life inconvenient through a frivolous lawsuit.

My two cents....

Roger

[mattias]

yeah, i'm not really worried about lawsuits, i'm mostly worried about security guards, local police and pissed off locals beating me up, stealing my gear and throwing me off whatever premises. also i'm a bit worried about what distributors may say when i don't have all the releases. being able to say "oh, but i shot in spain where you don't need one" would be nice. :-)

/matt

[Blue Audio Visual]

HOWEVER- anyone can file a lawsuit and most lawsuits are filed under the assumption that you will settle financially for less that it would cost you to successfully defend your legal rights.

Therefore, it should be remembered that in virtually all countries with a real court system, civil lawsuits are rarely about justice and almost always about harrassing the other person into submission through legal and finanical intimidation, and often without any real legal standing to support the plaintiff's position.

Roger - without wishing to insult you in this season of goodwill, that is an extremely Americocentric POV. Not every country is as culturally litigious, and the only law & legal system which counts in this discussion is Spanish.

[steve hyde]

HOWEVER- anyone can file a lawsuit and most lawsuits are filed under the assumption that you will settle financially for less that it would cost you to successfully defend your legal rights.

Therefore, it should be remembered that in virtually all countries with a real court system, civil lawsuits are rarely about justice and almost always about harrassing the other person into submission through legal and finanical intimidation, and often without any real legal standing to support the plaintiff's position.

Roger - without wishing to insult you in this season of goodwill, that is an extremely Americocentric POV. Not every country is as culturally litigious, and the only law & legal system which counts in this discussion is Spanish.

...We are really talking about international entertainment law since the film is made by a Swede in Spain and then perhaps distributed internationally.

Steve



Steve

[steve hyde]

yeah, i'm not really worried about lawsuits, i'm mostly worried about security guards, local police and pissed off locals beating me up, stealing my gear and throwing me off whatever premises. also i'm a bit worried about what distributors may say when i don't have all the releases. being able to say "oh, but i shot in spain where you don't need one" would be nice.

/matt

.... I assume this is your feature project we are talking about and you are right you should worry about distributors not wanting to touch it for lack of adequate rights being obtained. If you were a distributor would you want to buy yourself a potential legal headache?

I personally would not dream of making a feature film without legal council.


Steve

[Blue Audio Visual]

We are really talking about international entertainment law since the film is made by a Swede in Spain and then perhaps distributed internationally.

The fact that Mattias is Swedish is entirely irrelevant. As they say, when in Rome...

Yours somewhat flippantly,

Bart

[Angus]

...We are really talking about international entertainment law since the film is made by a Swede in Spain and then perhaps distributed internationally.

I think it is quite clear that for scenes shot in Spain, only the local law would apply.

To explain the Spain/UK/EU thing....EU laws take precedence over national laws. Both Spain and the UK are EU members, Spain certainly more enthusiastically than the UK.

But...Eu law obviously only takes precedence where there is an EU law covering the activities in question. There is probably no EU law on film/photography. Therefore national and possibly even local laws will apply. It is quite likely that Spanish law is similar to British and could be less rigorous...but do check.

[Blue Audio Visual]

Eu law obviously only takes precedence where there is an EU law covering the activities in question. There is probably no EU law on film/photography. Therefore national and possibly even local laws will apply. It is quite likely that Spanish law is similar to British and could be less rigorous...but do check.

Both the UK & Spain have voluntarily signed up to following the European Convention on Human Rights, and as such are ultimately subject to the ruling of the Strasbourg based court. These issues are covered by articles 8 & 10.

[aj]

yeah, i'm not really worried about lawsuits, i'm mostly worried about security guards, local police and pissed off locals beating me up, stealing my gear and throwing me off whatever premises.
/matt

All in Spain??? Franco is dead for 30 years.

Just inform yourself from a reliable source to protect your efforts.

And act ethically towards the accidental actors in your film. Honour their rights to privacy and the right to the use of their own image. Which is what the law is for. No trouble will then likely arise.

Good light when you are there.

[steve hyde]

We are really talking about international entertainment law since the film is made by a Swede in Spain and then perhaps distributed internationally.

The fact that Mattias is Swedish is entirely irrelevant. As they say, when in Rome...

Yours somewhat flippantly,

Bart

....well, when trying to sell your film to distributors in the United States perhaps it makes sense to think like a distributor in the United States. I suggest taking legal council from lawyers - not camera operators...



Steve

[mattias]

Franco is dead for 30 years.

that's why i'm worried about local police and regular people, who were probably too afraid to do anything back in the days when it was the state police you should be afraid of. democracy flips everything over. i've had authorities going mad on me for shooting in sweden as well as in new york, but it's easier when you're a local. the one time i was arrested in france for example, for completely different reasons, i completely shit my pants.

/matt

[Angus]

You can never legislate for the fact that the photographer these days is automatically suspected of being either a terrorist or a paedophile. Using a big film camera only increases suspicions. Some police officer or other member of "the authorities" is going to think s/he is clever and have a go at the poor bastard trying to shoot his film...because obviously Mattias is up to no good!

I believe someone on this very board was prevented in the UK from filming the last takeoff of Concorde with a 16mm camera by a heavy handed policeman....for no good reason whatsoever.

[MovieStuff]

HOWEVER- anyone can file a lawsuit and most lawsuits are filed under the assumption that you will settle financially for less that it would cost you to successfully defend your legal rights.

Therefore, it should be remembered that in virtually all countries with a real court system, civil lawsuits are rarely about justice and almost always about harrassing the other person into submission through legal and finanical intimidation, and often without any real legal standing to support the plaintiff's position.

Roger - without wishing to insult you in this season of goodwill, that is an extremely Americocentric POV. Not every country is as culturally litigious, and the only law & legal system which counts in this discussion is Spanish.

I'm not insulted but I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. In fact, the whole point is that it really does not matter what the laws are in Spain or the USA or Sweden and how well you or I or Mattias understand those laws. WE don't make the decision as to whether Mattias or his distibution company gets sued. Ordinary people that otherwise would never think about suing anyone often think differently if they feel there is money to be wrung out of a film production company because, you know, all film production companies and distribution companies are rich, right? ;)

That's why releases are more important than legal presumptions, even if those presumptions are accurate. As I say, civil lawsuits are not about justice but, rather, about one party trying to get something from another party. Whether they are in the right or not can't be prejudicially decided or there would be no need for a judge or jury. But the cost of getting to that point can be an effective leveraging tool against the production company and a release is very important in avoiding that problem, even if the law states that you don't need a release.

Roger