No More E64T?

Post by **MIKI-814** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:21 pm

deleted

Post by **Juergen** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:53 pm

As Ludwig Draser said before: Ektachrome 64T is not affected at all. The product information of Kodak is concernig Ektachrome 64 Daylight type, not T (tungsten type).

Post by **mattias** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:04 pm

MovieStuff wrote:This is a bit over-simplified, Mattias. You make it sound like you had been suggeting E100D all along and that no one, including Kodak, listened to you.

no, sorry that's not what i meant. i just meant that a lot of people didn't see the need for a "high speed" daylight reversal, and i said it would be great. now that people don't like 64t everybody says 100d would be much better, which kind of annoys me. ;-)

While I do remember your view that a daylight balanced stock would be preferred (by you), even if it were high speed, those arguing against it were doing so mainly from the standpoint of grain and not because it was daylight

both actually.

/matt

Post by **MovieStuff** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:36 pm

mattias wrote:...i just meant that a lot of people didn't see the need for a "high speed" daylight reversal, and i said it would be great. now that people don't like 64t everybody says 100d would be much better, which kind of annoys me....

Why? They aren't saying that 100D would be much better because it's daylight. They're saying that it would be much better because it has finer grain. The past arguments against a high speed stock of any kind -be it daylight or tungsten- was a reasonable fear that it would produce larger grain and no one wanted to think of being stuck with something like E160 type G as the replacement for K40. If the E64T looked like the E100D, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

Roger

Post by **mattias** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:18 pm

MovieStuff wrote:If the E64T looked like the E100D, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

that's exactly what annoys me. nobody listens to my needs until they suddenly match their own. reasons aren't interesting in my emotional life. :-)

/matt

Post by **Shanec8mm** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:18 pm

I am quite pleased with my results from 64T. My Minolta does a great job at metering this stock, and as of late the film looks a lot better than earlier batches. I shoot close to medium shots and the grain is just fine when projected. As someone who shoots Super 8 from time to time I am just happy that we have a reversal stock to use.

Post by **reflex** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:19 pm

MovieStuff wrote:If the E64T looked like the E100D, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

If only this was true. I suspect there would be a vocal minority wishing for E-64T just because they could.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:30 pm

mattias wrote: ...that's exactly what annoys me. nobody listens to my needs until they suddenly match their own.....

And your point is.......? ;)

Roger

Post by **mattias** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:42 pm

my point is that 100d is the exact same stock as it always was, and that when i suggested it would be useful in super 8 lots of people strongly disagreed. now they're supporters all of a sudden, or are you saying they don't really like it, they just hate in less than they do 64t? sounds like you might.

/matt

Post by **Angus** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:05 pm

64T does look OK and is now acceptable....but 100D looks "better" to my eyes.

Its a shame we cannot have both, but when Kodak failed to replace 7240 with another high speed reversal stock the writing was on the wall...only one colour reversal in super 8.

When Kodak announced 64T as the chosen stock, I remember a lot of people here suggested 100D would be better. I've tried both in super 8 and agree - though 100D would be difficult to use in artificial light.

I certainly wouldn't want anything faster than 100D as a general stock, 100ASA is pretty fast for MP film and with an XL camera would be tricky or even impossible to use in bright conditions.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:12 pm

mattias wrote:my point is that 100d is the exact same stock as it always was, and that when i suggested it would be useful in super 8 lots of people strongly disagreed. now they're supporters all of a sudden, or are you saying they don't really like it, they just hate in less than they do 64t? sounds like you might.

Not at all. I am saying that while your initial suggestion was for a high speed daylight stock, to my memory, you never specifically suggested E100D before E64T came out and certainly not back in the days of my talks with Kodak. You just wanted a high speed daylight stock in super 8, whether it was grainy or not, and your opponents were arguing for a slow speed stock of any kind, if that meant keeping the grain down. It was only after the E100D came out in super 8 that it was apparent your needs and the needs of others could be met with one film. To put it another way, before K40 died and E64T came out, you never said, "Hey, how about E100D? It's high speed and has finer grain than E64T?". How could you? No one knew that Kodak was going with E64T and no one knew how E100D would look in super 8 until we all saw it, so such a comparison could not have been made! So it isn't that everyone was ignoring your needs but, rather, looking at your suggestion about a high speed stock as being a source of grain.

Roger

Post by **Will2** » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:13 pm

Is there a technical hurdle to higher speed tungsten reversals? We've discussed the Fuji 400D before and the pluses/minuses of a 400 speed daylight stock, but it seems to me like a higher speed Tungsten reversal stock would be a big plus (like 500T in negative.)

Also, a higher speed 400D would give you 125asa with an 80A filter.

I assume the answer to that is grain in such a reversal stock would be too much.

Fuji just release a new Provia 400X stock with these characteristics...

New Provia 400X features higher saturation with more vivid color.

New Provia 400X offers a new level of Fine Grain in an ISO 400 Chrome Film with an RMS Granularity of 11

Provia 400X provides Improved Image Stability and Resistance to Fading

Provia 400X is available in 35mm and 120 roll formats.

Older Provia 400F

Fuji also makes a 64T reversal, not sure how it would compare to Kodak's...

Post by **freddiesykes** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:21 am

Fuji is selling Velvia 50 again if anyone hasn't noticed by now. I have to shoot the half dozen or so rolls of RVP100 before I can order some though. :roll:

Post by **Juergen** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:19 am

Fuji T64 is available in Single 8 cartridges, too: http://www.retro8.com

Post by **Jim Carlile** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:46 am

Admittedly, it seems to have improved, but it's too little, too late. E100D would have been a much smarter choice because they could have stuffed it in a ISO 160 cartridge like the ones for the old E160 and just block out the filter notch, and it would work automatically with all existing cameras without issue.

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. Many cameras will read this as ASA 160, which is 2/3 stop underexposed.

Is there a technical hurdle to higher speed tungsten reversals? We've discussed the Fuji 400D before and the pluses/minuses of a 400 speed daylight stock, but it seems to me like a higher speed Tungsten reversal stock would be a big plus (like 500T in negative.)

Most cameras (not all, but most) will not read above ASA 160. That's the problem.