How many cameras do you own?

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:32 am

"when i visted usa in 2001 i asked why theuscitizens did not at least use diesel engines in their big suvs, well, very simple - it smells."

Well, also because stains buildings black with its foul particulates. The reason why diesel is popular in Europe is because a decision was made decades ago that reducing CO2 levels was more important than reducing particulates. In the US particulates are seen as worse than CO2.

Post by **super8man** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:57 am

For a variety of reasons, diesel will become more popular in NA as time goes on. Clean diesel technology and drive characteristics that are actually usable (torque range, etc) will eventually win out over the stereotypical quest for more horsepower (of which most is unusable within 99% of the speed limits).

Also, from a refining/production perspective, diesel, even clean diesel, is much cheaper to produce in terms of refinery infrastructure compared to gasoline refining. More refineries around the world are capable of exchanging diesel compared to gasoline blends and if the world moved towards a clean diesel front, price spikes would be substantially less compared to those observed with gasoline.

Post by **S8 Booster** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:03 am

Evan Kubota wrote:"when i visted usa in 2001 i asked why theuscitizens did not at least use diesel engines in their big suvs, well, very simple - it smells."

Well, also because stains buildings black with its foul particulates. The reason why diesel is popular in Europe is because a decision was made decades ago that reducing CO2 levels was more important than reducing particulates. In the US particulates are seen as worse than CO2.

modern euro/japanese dieseles meets strict EU rectrictions on particle emissions and meets the most stringent regulations.

some details:
http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/hd.html

some diesel fun: the diesel made by the man who hates diesel engines - hondas former f1 boss up to 1993.
http://www.honda.co.uk/change/

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:17 am

That link only relates to heavy-duty truck and bus engines... also it doesn't give any comparable emission ratings for gasoline engines.

FWIW, I don't care for the driving characteristics of diesel engines. A lower-revving engine with a wider powerband at low rpms is probably suited for most people, but I prefer small-displacement high-revving designs.

Also, diesel is generally more expensive than regular unleaded gasoline where I live.

Post by **S8 Booster** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:40 am

Evan Kubota wrote:That link only relates to heavy-duty truck and bus engines... also it doesn't give any comparable emission ratings for gasoline engines.

FWIW, I don't care for the driving characteristics of diesel engines. A lower-revving engine with a wider powerband at low rpms is probably suited for most people, but I prefer small-displacement high-revving designs.

Also, diesel is generally more expensive than regular unleaded gasoline where I live.

the standard referred to is set for small cars as well:

Euro IV 2005.10 1.5 0.46 3.5 0.02 0.5
Euro V 2008.10 1.5 0.46 2.0 0.02 0.5

see if you can test drice a new honda accord or crv suv with the new diesel on your side and i guarante you will change your mind. fabolous acceleration without no low end turbo lag, variablr turbo nozzle, no diesel knocking, low compresion ratio, no piston clattering due to offset crankshaft, very low fuel consumption due to hpdi also the fuel consumption is sensationally low so it becomes much cheaper in the end to drive a (modern) diesel.

high reving is completed with a exceptional buffalo torque and high power output. its like nothing you ever driven before. trust me. diesels will never be the same. youre gonna love it.

no ratteling at all no smoking or particles.

just try it.

you wont regret.

http://world.honda.com/news/2004/4040506.html

U.K., May 6, 2004 Ã¢â‚¬â€œ HondaÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s new Accord 2.2 i-CTDi Sport (155 hp) has this week set no fewer than 19 world speed records and achieved 3.07 litres / 100 km (92 mpg) fuel economy to boot. British racing driver Robin Liddell and freelance journalist Iain Robertson were part of the European record-setting team.

Post by **super8man** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:51 am

Actually Evan, I have personally test driven a few of the new clean diesel vehicles including the BMW 535D, a Meredes E320, and the Honda Stationwagon diesel (not available in the USA - I think it was the Accord Tourer - left hand drive).

All I can say is (and I am a US muscle car guy), the clean diesel technology and the new diesel motors will make you say goodbye to your Hemi chrysler in a heartbeat of america!!!

Anyway, if you ever see one, think twice before trying to challenge it on the roadways...

Post by **audadvnc** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:55 am

My father had a 1971 VW Diesel Rabbit, and it got 60 mpg its whole life. It was a little tricky getting started in the winter, though.

Post by **super8man** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:15 am

God Loves The 1974 VW Dasher
Why my mom's old yellow econobox still beats the crap out of any new
car on the road
- By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Friday, September 16, 2005

My mother, she had this car. It was a 1974 VW Dasher, Volkswagen's
urgent follow-up to the then-sagging Beetle and a seminal stopgap car
for VW in America as they were about to launch the Golf/Rabbit
worldwide megahit and my mom's car, it was bright lemon yellow, the color of the sun in orgasm, the color of hope's underwear, the color of God's own Post-It notes -- which, by the way, hadn't been invented yet.

But here's the great thing: This Dasher, it got at least 30 miles per
gallon. Maybe more. Maybe more like 40. It was, after all, part of the
small-car revolution, a response to the great U.S. oil crisis of '73,
which ushered in the era of the gas-sipping Japanese econoboxes, Honda
and Toyota and Datsun et al., all of which got equally impressive
mileage and all of which, in terms of durability and efficiency, simply
demolished the American behemoths, with their bloated big-block
oil-sucking engines and their eight mpg running downhill on a good day.

URL:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... 091605.DTL

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:37 am

"All I can say is (and I am a US muscle car guy), the clean diesel technology and the new diesel motors will make you say goodbye to your Hemi chrysler in a heartbeat of america!!!"

Heh, I've said goodbye to Chryslers before I was born ;) I guess the real reason I'm not interested in diesels is because I like sports cars, and gasoline engines are still the best combination of performance and efficiency in that application.

Post by **super8man** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:43 am

Yes, you are right...apparently, Porsche REFUSES to produce anything diesel...no matter how clean or powerful it is...I like sports cars but like a little more metal around me...though if I had my choice, a nice TR6 would be nice...

Post by **Evan Kubota** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:08 am

Yet Porsche can make an SUV :lol: I wouldn't put too much stock in what they do now, since performance-oriented drivers failed to make up a large percentage of their buyers long ago.

Strangely, I feel safer in smaller, lower, lighter cars... they're certainly more stable (in transitions).

Post by **S8 Booster** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:00 am

Evan Kubota wrote:"All I can say is (and I am a US muscle car guy), the clean diesel technology and the new diesel motors will make you say goodbye to your Hemi chrysler in a heartbeat of america!!!"

Heh, I've said goodbye to Chryslers before I was born ;) I guess the real reason I'm not interested in diesels is because I like sports cars, and gasoline engines are still the best combination of performance and efficiency in that application.

evan, you completely misunderstood my post:

diesel is perfect for SUVs which was clearly stated in my initial post about US circumstances but now you twist this into sprotscar domain.

that is a totally different story.

offcourse i would never want a diesel into my 9000+ rpm S2000.

SUVs SUVs, SUVs - big bigger biggest

if us car makers were able to produce a proper diesel you probably only see diesels in them

and youd still be hooked on a modern diesels, especially the hondas that are totally knock and lag free. it does 5,7 l/100 km on cruise with the CRV. not bad for a 155 hp package in a 1627 kg car. Torque (NM/RPM): 340 @ 2000

Post by **downix** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:01 pm

The wife and I are in the market for a new car. One of the small utility SUV's like the Toyota Matrix would be perfect. Noone makes them in a Diesel, which PO's me.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:02 pm

super8man wrote:I like sports cars but like a little more metal around me...though if I had my choice, a nice TR6 would be nice...

I had a TR6 back in 85 that had the fairly rare high lift racing cam. It freakin screamed in the mountains of Colorado where I lived for a while. I was looking forward to picking up another 10% horsepower when I moved back to sea level with it but my first wife was driving it and blew the engine because she didn't pay attention to the oil pressure. (grounds for divorce, right there) We had it rebuilt but a crooked engine shop kept the original engine and put a dinky street grind in it that lacked the racing cam. It was still fun but really didn't have the punch that the original engine had. Sniff, sniff.....

Roger

Post by **david** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:34 pm

MovieStuff wrote:
super8man wrote:I like sports cars but like a little more metal around me...though if I had my choice, a nice TR6 would be nice...
I had a TR6 back in 85 that had the fairly rare high lift racing cam. It freakin screamed in the mountains of Colorado where I lived for a while. I was looking forward to picking up another 10% horsepower when I moved back to sea level with it but my first wife was driving it and blew the engine because she didn't pay attention to the oil pressure. (grounds for divorce, right there) We had it rebuilt but a crooked engine shop kept the original engine and put a dinky street grind in it that lacked the racing cam. It was still fun but really didn't have the punch that the original engine had. Sniff, sniff.....

Roger

did the same thing with my mini minor. how stupid :evil:
now I'm looking for a new engine, hopefully a 1300 cooper from the 70's - 66hp on a 670kg car! and those tiny 10" wheels... then I'll be ready for some fun on the alps again