Hey I don't mean to be a jerk or disrespectful to pro8mm but isn't this a pretty blatant ripoff?
I mean the sweedish guy who invented (Ericson?)super 16 gets credit for pioneering it so shouldnt the Sleep Always crew get some credit for inventing this format which we all know is "Super Dooper 8"?
I know ,people are going to say so and so and so and so widened their super 8 gates back in ___ but these guys did the cameras ,shot a movie,did their own transfers and exhibited a film for public screening years before anyone else. I would think at least some partial credit is in order to them for pioneering the format.
Pro8mm is acting like THEY invented it which I think is ridiculous because there is a DVD already out to prove they didnt!
Now pro8mm does have ground glass markings...may even be re-centering the lens.But my K3 has a super 16 gate,no recentering and no 16:9 markings ,yet I send the film in as "Super 16".So adding those advancements can't be an argument for them.those advancemets could be their trademark by themselves but not for the whole film format.
On the upside it looks like they have a gate on their rank that will do the new format ,so those with super dooper 8 cams have the option of doing something other than a film chain. But personally ,its hard to give them my business in good conscience.and that sucks because they do offer some good products and services.
Sorry to jump in on your behalf guys .I hope I'm not outta line.
I thought someone should say something.
I was taught not to keep silent when you see something you believe to be wrongdoing.
MAX-8 widescreen..hmm....sound familiar?
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
-
David M. Leugers
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 12:42 am
- Contact:
No one credits the Swedish cinematographer who made the format viable when you go to purchase a camera or anything related to S-16mm, why do you expect Pro-8mm to say "Super-Duper 8mm , you know, first made famous by so-and-so" with their own approach to cameras? Look at all the different names for color, widescreen, and other processes, mostly alike. I am no fan of Pro-8mm, I am indifferent about them, but I don't see anything devious about what they are doing with their 8mm widescreen efforts. My two cents.
David M. Leugers
David M. Leugers
-
reflex
- Senior member
- Posts: 2131
- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:25 am
- Real name: James Grahame
- Location: It's complicated
- Contact:
Pro8mm has a right to name to their process of enlarging the film gate of Beaulieu cameras. That said, I'm uncomfortable with the way they're presenting it as a new technology that they invented.
Their March 1st, 2005 press release says: "Pro8mm of Burbank, California continues its' 35 year tradition of pushing the tiny Super 8 frame to its maximum potential with its introduction of MAX-8, a 16 x 9 Widescreen Format." That statement doesn't seem fair to me. Pro8mm isn't introducing anything new, they're just modifiying gear the same way others before them have.
Mitch Perkins and Greg Miller probably weren't the first people to widen a Super 8 gate. However, Mitch and Rick Palidwor were the first to make a full-length motion picture that way. That certainly gives them the right to call their gate modification "Super Duper 8" if they want.
And we have the right to choose, too. If you search the forum archives, you'll find several threads about widescreen S8 and potential names.
Their March 1st, 2005 press release says: "Pro8mm of Burbank, California continues its' 35 year tradition of pushing the tiny Super 8 frame to its maximum potential with its introduction of MAX-8, a 16 x 9 Widescreen Format." That statement doesn't seem fair to me. Pro8mm isn't introducing anything new, they're just modifiying gear the same way others before them have.
Mitch Perkins and Greg Miller probably weren't the first people to widen a Super 8 gate. However, Mitch and Rick Palidwor were the first to make a full-length motion picture that way. That certainly gives them the right to call their gate modification "Super Duper 8" if they want.
And we have the right to choose, too. If you search the forum archives, you'll find several threads about widescreen S8 and potential names.
www.retrothing.com
Vintage Gadgets & Technology
Vintage Gadgets & Technology
-
Rick Palidwor
- Senior member
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:02 am
- Real name: Rick Palidwor
- Location: Toronto
- Contact:
-
Scotness
- Senior member
- Posts: 2630
- Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 8:58 pm
- Location: Sunny Queensland, Australia!
- Contact:
Check this tread
http://www.filmshooting.com./scripts/fo ... 63&start=0
there's a lengthy discussion on who first invented it there
Scot
http://www.filmshooting.com./scripts/fo ... 63&start=0
there's a lengthy discussion on who first invented it there
Scot
Read my science fiction novel The Forest of Life at https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D38AV4K
-
FILM-THURSO
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:57 am
- Contact:
Well I've already said it but the Sleep Always people weren't first with the extra wide super 8 format- they merely applied a little more to resource and finance to refining what amateurs and their great-aunt Mable had been doing for years, that's filing out the camera gate to use the extra space. Wide 8 or 8 Xtra are the most popular names it goes under and these pre-date Super Dooper 8 which most agree is a pants name for it.
As such it's a formating of film that cannot be acredited to any one person, group, club or company because pretty much all of us have had the same idea largely without any prior knowledge that someone else may have already done the same. So no credit and a big pat on the back for engenious amateurs instead.
As such it's a formating of film that cannot be acredited to any one person, group, club or company because pretty much all of us have had the same idea largely without any prior knowledge that someone else may have already done the same. So no credit and a big pat on the back for engenious amateurs instead.
David has saome good points.
However I still feel as though pro8mm is presenting this as if it something wholly new that they thought of themselves withought any help from anyone and that is wrong to all the individuals who have been working on it publicly.Didnt I read soemwhere that Flying Spot does super duper transfers now? How could pro 8 have invented it if another house is already providing the ability to transfer it out of demand?
Film-thurso ,I do realize that there is some people who claim to be experimenting with the gates before sleep always. But to take credit for something like that ,the best thing to do is to publicly document which friendly fire films did. Because unless you have evidence ,anyone can say "I thought of that years ago". Im not saying it isnt true ,just saying its not documented or at least that Ive seen.
I mean you dont see a major camera house advertising they have this revolutionary wide 16 format, no they just say they do the service for the cameras.
Now that you should mention the Beaulieu camera becuase i think that would be a fair claim to fame....that they are the first to do that.
I can't believe more people dont see the wrong in this.
However I still feel as though pro8mm is presenting this as if it something wholly new that they thought of themselves withought any help from anyone and that is wrong to all the individuals who have been working on it publicly.Didnt I read soemwhere that Flying Spot does super duper transfers now? How could pro 8 have invented it if another house is already providing the ability to transfer it out of demand?
Film-thurso ,I do realize that there is some people who claim to be experimenting with the gates before sleep always. But to take credit for something like that ,the best thing to do is to publicly document which friendly fire films did. Because unless you have evidence ,anyone can say "I thought of that years ago". Im not saying it isnt true ,just saying its not documented or at least that Ive seen.
I mean you dont see a major camera house advertising they have this revolutionary wide 16 format, no they just say they do the service for the cameras.
Now that you should mention the Beaulieu camera becuase i think that would be a fair claim to fame....that they are the first to do that.
I can't believe more people dont see the wrong in this.
re
"No one credits the Swedish cinematographer who made the format viable when you go to purchase a camera or anything related to S-16mm, why do you expect Pro-8mm to say "Super-Duper 8mm , you know, first made famous by so-and-so" with their own approach to cameras? "
I want to clarify David that I dont want them to give anyone cedit on their site.Just not to credit themselves for the film format.
imagine this:
"PROFilm16 inc is pushing film technology to the edge as it introduces "Super wide 16" .We mod 16mm camera to shoot on a larger area to give you a widescreen image.Then you can get yuor film transferred here on our revolutionary telecine that is modified to handle this new exciting format."
How ridiculous would that sound?
Put things in perspective?
Profilm16 is a fictional co. in this example.
I want to clarify David that I dont want them to give anyone cedit on their site.Just not to credit themselves for the film format.
imagine this:
"PROFilm16 inc is pushing film technology to the edge as it introduces "Super wide 16" .We mod 16mm camera to shoot on a larger area to give you a widescreen image.Then you can get yuor film transferred here on our revolutionary telecine that is modified to handle this new exciting format."
How ridiculous would that sound?
Put things in perspective?
Profilm16 is a fictional co. in this example.
Like the whole Tesla or Marconi who did the Radio thing, most technology is the result of credit to the wrong person anyway. Mind you I learned of both these people in school!
The Sleep Always guys have there Super Duper8 stuff on the internet with an earlier date then pro8mm has its Max8. [period]
That's all people need to know!
If anyone really cares, they will come to know the truth with time.
In fact, Pro 8mm could help to publicize Sleep Always even more by trying to pretend there aint already a Super Duper 8 feature out there!
Picture it, as Max8 grows and grows and grows to bigger then life status. While at the same time, rumors and rumors of another earlier format called Super Duper 8 continue to grow. Soon, the truth of Super Duper 8 being first, will spread across the galaxy and Rick and Mitch will be imortalized in all folklore about these formats..
Heck, I may even make my own feature about these underdogs and shoot it in my own new format called "wide--Gate eight" eh!
By the way, is that one taken already??? I seriously dont know 8)
The Sleep Always guys have there Super Duper8 stuff on the internet with an earlier date then pro8mm has its Max8. [period]
That's all people need to know!
If anyone really cares, they will come to know the truth with time.
In fact, Pro 8mm could help to publicize Sleep Always even more by trying to pretend there aint already a Super Duper 8 feature out there!
Picture it, as Max8 grows and grows and grows to bigger then life status. While at the same time, rumors and rumors of another earlier format called Super Duper 8 continue to grow. Soon, the truth of Super Duper 8 being first, will spread across the galaxy and Rick and Mitch will be imortalized in all folklore about these formats..
Heck, I may even make my own feature about these underdogs and shoot it in my own new format called "wide--Gate eight" eh!
By the way, is that one taken already??? I seriously dont know 8)
-
FILM-THURSO
- Posts: 355
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 1:57 am
- Contact:
Hello edgebsl, Perhaps it's worth noting that "credit" is not important. The point I'm making is that NO-ONE should claim any credit for wide formats on Super 8 precisely because there has been little to no documentation of such development. Fine talk about the format but don't come out with any hint of "invented by".
It makes no difference who makes it most public, they still can't claim "credit" if they are not the first. As is (and I've made this point before) all film has date coding on the edges so all it takes is for people like myself to haul out old footage and reveal the date code on our stock containing wide super 8 images which alone proves that super duper was far from being first in any stretch of the imagination. I'm not interested in credit for myself because I doubt very much that I could have been first having only started filming in 1985 and filming
tra in 1986. I was late into 8! But ahead of sup-dup.
In all probability it is unlikely that it will ever be shown as to who really was first so I think people should stop trying to claim glory for something we all know isn't new and has been done by experimenting movie fans since the dawn of cinematic time.
It makes no difference who makes it most public, they still can't claim "credit" if they are not the first. As is (and I've made this point before) all film has date coding on the edges so all it takes is for people like myself to haul out old footage and reveal the date code on our stock containing wide super 8 images which alone proves that super duper was far from being first in any stretch of the imagination. I'm not interested in credit for myself because I doubt very much that I could have been first having only started filming in 1985 and filming
tra in 1986. I was late into 8! But ahead of sup-dup.In all probability it is unlikely that it will ever be shown as to who really was first so I think people should stop trying to claim glory for something we all know isn't new and has been done by experimenting movie fans since the dawn of cinematic time.
Does anybody know any specifics about the pro8mm cameras using "super duper 8" ?
Has Po8mm done anything new or innovative to the cameras? Or have they just widened the gate? Because if they have done something else new other than widening the gate maybe its not such a big deal that they have renamed the technique
Has Po8mm done anything new or innovative to the cameras? Or have they just widened the gate? Because if they have done something else new other than widening the gate maybe its not such a big deal that they have renamed the technique
credit
Filmthurso you make my point for me.
Pro 8mm ONLY is claiming credit.
The Sleep Always crew doesnt even claim"We were 1st"
My point was that it was already established,released on dvd and being shot and transferred by many different people. Just most notably "Sleep always" I never suggested Pro8 thank them or anybody ,just stop making the false claim of credit.
Pro8's press release clearly states they are "introducing" a "new" format.
And that is merely my point in the simplest of terms.
Pro 8mm ONLY is claiming credit.
The Sleep Always crew doesnt even claim"We were 1st"
My point was that it was already established,released on dvd and being shot and transferred by many different people. Just most notably "Sleep always" I never suggested Pro8 thank them or anybody ,just stop making the false claim of credit.
Pro8's press release clearly states they are "introducing" a "new" format.
And that is merely my point in the simplest of terms.