Today a receive a email from an organization that keeps a heap of historical movies, answering me how do I should clean and lubricate old movies. They said me that is enough to clean them with isopropyl alcohol, and don't lubricate them. They said me that lubricating agents damage films at long term.
:? SIG! Dismiss my previous tip (castor oil ...)
Don't lubricate movies
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
To lubricate or not lubricate
As far as I understood, lubricate help films to project smoother. It doesn't help that they last more. So, if you intend to transfer them to video the advise is: clean it, transfer it, and store it as a master in a dry, ~cold place, and don't project it anymore. If you intend to project it over and over, maybe it's better to lubricate them. 
Jessh, you are talking about a specific product for conditioning films. So, it doesn't deteriorate it, for sure. My problem is that where I live I can't buy chemical products by mail.
Jessh, you are talking about a specific product for conditioning films. So, it doesn't deteriorate it, for sure. My problem is that where I live I can't buy chemical products by mail.
Last edited by Old8 on Thu May 16, 2002 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Higginbotham
no lube ?
The Oregon Historical Society told me the same thing.
It's good advise for those who hoard film, and never project it.
*LOL* I'm serious; what's the point of storing film that never gets projected? I run thousands of feet of film on a regular basis, and I don't mean major motion pictures. The chattering of dry film thru a dry gate is something that makes me want to shut off the machine. Maybe that explains why these 'societies' are so obsessed with storage. That's all they do. Actually, for the films sake, that's probably a good thing. If a film is rare, then commit it to a digital format and retire the print. Brother; what a world we live in.
DH
It's good advise for those who hoard film, and never project it.
*LOL* I'm serious; what's the point of storing film that never gets projected? I run thousands of feet of film on a regular basis, and I don't mean major motion pictures. The chattering of dry film thru a dry gate is something that makes me want to shut off the machine. Maybe that explains why these 'societies' are so obsessed with storage. That's all they do. Actually, for the films sake, that's probably a good thing. If a film is rare, then commit it to a digital format and retire the print. Brother; what a world we live in.
DH
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Andreas Wideroe
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How to clean well?
OK, I want to just clean some films of mine - is that best done with isopropanol on a piece of cotton cloth or should I use a sponge? Or maybe I'm way off?
Andreas Wideroe
Filmshooting | Com - Administrator
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huh!
Clearly these people who say not to lubricate your film don't know Kodachrome very well. When you shoot Kodachrome its for life cause it will outlast you and stay in mint condition.
My experience is that non lubricated film becomes a dust magnet which will eventually scratch the film to death. Use anti-static Ecco along with cleaning of the projectors film path and you are good to go.
My experience is that non lubricated film becomes a dust magnet which will eventually scratch the film to death. Use anti-static Ecco along with cleaning of the projectors film path and you are good to go.
Awand:
I was told to use a cottom velvet, add to be sure that it is made of cottom, not acrylic (I think that acrylic generates static).
To all:
I think that if the projector path and the movie is out of dust there is no reason to lubricate the film. Lubricating agents by their side will retain dust. Why lubricating agents will avoid scratches? Only film borders touch projector path. Someone could say that films "slide" in front of obturator, so it should be lubricated. Why not lubricate this projector path instead of the film?
I was told to use a cottom velvet, add to be sure that it is made of cottom, not acrylic (I think that acrylic generates static).
To all:
I think that if the projector path and the movie is out of dust there is no reason to lubricate the film. Lubricating agents by their side will retain dust. Why lubricating agents will avoid scratches? Only film borders touch projector path. Someone could say that films "slide" in front of obturator, so it should be lubricated. Why not lubricate this projector path instead of the film?
Automatic film path lubricator?
Old8 wrote: Why not lubricate this projector path instead of the film?
Sounds like a good idea, but my guess is that the lubricant on the projector path would get all used up long before your 400 feet of film got through the projector. Perhaps an automatic lubrication system like I had for the chain of an old motorcycle I had. It would drip just the right amount of lubricant onto the film path. Just a thought. :!:
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S8 Booster!
Kodak info about film lubrication.
Read these detals on how the film is lubed. Might rectify a few question marks?
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/moti ... shtml#lube
(and http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/moti ... hand.shtml - extensive about film handling)
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/moti ... shtml#lube
(and http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/moti ... hand.shtml - extensive about film handling)
RGDSLubrication
All motion-picture films destined for projection are required some level of lubrication. The lubricant incorporated in some 8 mm or 16 mm films may be sufficient, even after processing. Since all films may not be lubricated, it should be done to assure a smoother projection. Most laboratories do apply a lubricant when necessary. Caution: Solvent film cleaners or lubricants require adequate ventilation and avoidance of prolonged contact with skin. If these precautions cannot be met, employ a professional firm to clean and lubricate the films. Also, local municipal codes must be strictly adhered to in using and disposing of any solvents.
Theatrical 35 mm release prints require considerably higher levels of lubrication to provide trouble-free performance during projection nuns. Since the required amount of lubricant is excessive for overall application, it is applied to the perforated film edges only on the emulsion side. During windup, some of the lubricant transfers to the film edges on the support side. The edge-wax solution consists of 50 grams of paraffin wax dissolved into 1 1itre of inhibited 1.1.1 Trichloroethane and is usually applied by a special edge-waxing machine. For more information, refer to the SMPTE Recommended Practice, RP151-1989, Lubricatlon, Print.
Kodachrome film comes just lubrificated, but when cleaning it after splicing and/or before striping, you take off this lubrification.
So, basicly after striping a new lubrification is very important, to avoid abrasion of the sound stripe and dirt in the projector.
The projector really takes the film only at it´s edges, but when it comes to the gate section, the complete film surface is pressed towards the film path. Sound stripe abrasions in that area may cause serious troubles, even complete abrasion of good sound stripe. I had this experience with a Bauer T502 projector. The dirt was not visible from outside, as it was between the lens and the path, short under the gate.
The other locations where the film is touched at it´s surfaces is the sound head & soundhead pressure piece and the pitch roller & capstan section.
Old, dryed out copies of feature films often run with an unstable picture (left-right jitter) and a rattling noise thru the projector. Applying a lubrification can make these prints run perfectly silent again.
The best expieriences I made were with the RF-001 agent from Ingo Reinsdorf in Haan, where I buy sound striping stuff.
Pedro
So, basicly after striping a new lubrification is very important, to avoid abrasion of the sound stripe and dirt in the projector.
The projector really takes the film only at it´s edges, but when it comes to the gate section, the complete film surface is pressed towards the film path. Sound stripe abrasions in that area may cause serious troubles, even complete abrasion of good sound stripe. I had this experience with a Bauer T502 projector. The dirt was not visible from outside, as it was between the lens and the path, short under the gate.
The other locations where the film is touched at it´s surfaces is the sound head & soundhead pressure piece and the pitch roller & capstan section.
Old, dryed out copies of feature films often run with an unstable picture (left-right jitter) and a rattling noise thru the projector. Applying a lubrification can make these prints run perfectly silent again.
The best expieriences I made were with the RF-001 agent from Ingo Reinsdorf in Haan, where I buy sound striping stuff.
Pedro
What I've learned about all this lubricating stuff is :roll: :
Usually 8mm/Super8 is not used in movie theaters. So, problems are not the same. Lubricate or not lubricate is a decision that depends on the use you give it. If you project it over and over do it (but if it is a new one it came lubricated from lab, so don't do it) . If your intention is to use it as a master and then store, there is no need to lubricate it. I think that it's better not to do it. If the film is not running smoothlly do it (but I think that most of the times it's not due to poor lubrication but due to damaged perforations, and lubricating won't help).
Usually 8mm/Super8 is not used in movie theaters. So, problems are not the same. Lubricate or not lubricate is a decision that depends on the use you give it. If you project it over and over do it (but if it is a new one it came lubricated from lab, so don't do it) . If your intention is to use it as a master and then store, there is no need to lubricate it. I think that it's better not to do it. If the film is not running smoothlly do it (but I think that most of the times it's not due to poor lubrication but due to damaged perforations, and lubricating won't help).
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Guest
To lube or not to lube
I am frankly more than a little surprised that some one would recommend not lubing their films. I guess the key is which products you use. I never will use just alcohol to clean a film. This method and others was for cleaning a Hollywood film in theatres because it is cheap, it cleans well, and the print is not expected to last for years and years. The best products out there will not damage your films in any way that I can tell. I have films I cleaned and lubed 25 years ago and they are better for it. How? The most important thing besides making your films slippery enough to pass through a projectors film gate is to keep the base of the film pliable. It takes a pliable base for the film to lay flat and to not buckle or curl. When the film is nice and pliable it is at its strongest. A dried out brittle film base becomes a mess of torn sprocket holes, tears in the film and shreaded footage in even the best projectors. Super 8mm film suffers the most as the tiny sprocket holes get elongated and torn by the thin pull down claw. (One of the reasons I have a soft spot for R-8mm with their beefy sprocket holes ). For general all purpose cleaning and lubing I like Neumade Renovator or Ecco film cleaner. They dry fast, rejuvenates the film base making it pliable and can be relied upon to do a good job, just make sure you have adequate ventilation. I recommend using a product called Webril Wipes. It is a roll of cotton pads about 6" x 6" that will not harm your film. One roll will last years for most people and the last time I looked one roll sold for less than $10. I say when it comes to film = cleanliness is next to godliness.
). For general all purpose cleaning and lubing I like Neumade Renovator or Ecco film cleaner. They dry fast, rejuvenates the film base making it pliable and can be relied upon to do a good job, just make sure you have adequate ventilation. I recommend using a product called Webril Wipes. It is a roll of cotton pads about 6" x 6" that will not harm your film. One roll will last years for most people and the last time I looked one roll sold for less than $10. I say when it comes to film = cleanliness is next to godliness.-
Old Uncle Barry
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Well gentlemen,let me add my experiences.Back in 1961 I had my Std8 collection of the time lubricated & 'Permafilmed'- a fancy name of the time for lubrication/impregnation.Those films are as good today as they were when new.
Then I took up Super8 twenty years ago and have never bothered my backside to do anything with them except for following good old fashioned storage advice.That is reasonably cool,dry and dark conditions all protected within a good quality can/case that keeps out dust etc.
Yes,those films are as good today as they were when new.
Projection problems-never,not even a torn sprocket,but that is due to a perfectly maintained projector(s).But that is another story...............
Well gentlemen,let me add my experiences.Back in 1961 I had my Std8 collection of the time lubricated & 'Permafilmed'- a fancy name of the time for lubrication/impregnation.Those films are as good today as they were when new.
Then I took up Super8 twenty years ago and have never bothered my backside to do anything with them except for following good old fashioned storage advice.That is reasonably cool,dry and dark conditions all protected within a good quality can/case that keeps out dust etc.
Yes,those films are as good today as they were when new.
Projection problems-never,not even a torn sprocket,but that is due to a perfectly maintained projector(s).But that is another story...............