Shipping films UK to Europe... how ?

[doug]

OK I know the whole subject of x-ray damage (or not) to films has probably been gone over before many times...
This afternoon I sauntered down to my local post office here in deepest Dorset UK, expecting to simply post my 16mm film off to Andec in Germany. It needs their usual nice E6 bath. I think it must be several months since the last time I sent one. The post mistress, who I know vaguely, asked me what was in the package, then she politely said 'you realise it will be x-rayed.' Apparently this procedure was started fairly recently for EVERYTHING going abroad. She made a couple of phone calls to Royal Mail to confirm.
I had put a Kodak 'do not x-ray' sticker on but this would have little effect preventing it going through the machine. And strangely there appears to be no alternative other than sending by air-mail. As this film is rather special I didn't risk it.
So... I was wondering what others in the UK have being doing very recently when sending films to Europe or elsewhere for processing. Do you use the Royal Mail and fingers crossed ? Or is there a reliable courier service that doesn't x-ray. I had a look at Fedex site but they apparently do random x-ray checks.

[aj]

Likely it will not be x-rayed. Who will watch all these images?
It is a myth kep alive to keep people from attempting at all.

If it is it will only be exposed once. The film will not be hurt as in Europe X-ray
machines use flash exposure of a low level.

Otherwise you would need to bring it yourself.
Travelling using train or a car. Enjoy the weekend in Berlin:)
Be sure to arrive on the day before processing otherwise
you may need to stay all week.

[Angus]

One thing to bear in mind. Last year the European Union agreed on a quite insane list of "dangerous" items that are now prohibited in the post.

It's now pretty much impossible to mail order a spare mobile phone batter, can of paint for your car, gas canister for camping stoves and so on....items that have been safely exchanged via regular mail for decades.

A lot of individuals and businessess have taken it upon themselves simply to fail to declare the correct contents of packages. Thus the Royal Mail has probably taken to increasing the frequency of x-ray checks especially on stuff going out to the EU.

Personally I think the new rules are over the top, and to be honest the product of minds that are insane. But that's the sad case now.

Having said this, I've put films through many airport x-ray machines, anything from good old K40 motion picture film to Ilford Delta 3200 in 135 and 120 formats....in one case a high speed roll went through no fewer than seven airports between purchase and developing. I've never noticed any problems but most of my films are not of critical importance.

It is worth noting that a whole day's shooting on the TV series "Lost" was junked due to someone x-raying film cans. It can happen.

What do Andec say? You could try a service like parcel2go.com

[aj]

I haven't heard of this list. You can safely assume this list is the same as in the US.

Lithium using batteries are banned for some time as a plane crashed due to a battery fire in the luggage compartment.
Other goods are/were possibly banned as they form a danger to handling-personell. Even so when it is not air-lifted. Inside EU postal transport is always per truck. Almost every destiantion is within reach in 24 hours.

[Angus]

Here is the info from the Royal Mail

http://www.royalmail.com/personal/help- ... ited-Goods

I cannot vouch for post offices around the country but at the ones I have visited there were (and often still are) posters explaining the new rules which were introduced last year.

Its always been prohibited to mail explosives and firearms with the Royal Mail but the far more restrictive rules were introduced EU-wide last year.

About as nutty as defining the acceptable curvature of a banana.

[doug]

If as Andre says the X-ray dosage is low then maybe we don't have much to be concerned about. But I do wonder if this is so with the machines used by Royal Mail. As I understand it, when I spoke to the post office lady, everything goes through regardless. So I would think they would need quite a high dose to pick up anything suspicious from all those parcels ? Not as easy as the airport machines we encounter for hand baggage, for example, which are low dosage. (The machines they use for the bigger baggage at airports are high dosage, right ?) And perhaps they use computers rather than humans to detect suspicious things in the many x-ray images ?
So I find it rather disturbing. Movie film is obviously more susceptible to problems than still film, because the x-rays would affect the roll unevenly.
But perhaps I am getting a little paranoid, I don't know. It's just that this particular roll of Ektachrome 100D is really important to me, months of work with animation and effects, and I would be gutted if it was damaged. It would be so nice if there was some 16mm E6 service like Andec's here in Britain. Fairly recently I heard that AG in Birmingham had acquired a cine processor machine....

[aj]

All assumption and paranoia.

Nothing gets x-rayed unless it is suspicious.

There is a forummember in UK who runs a lab and does E6 processing. What length is the roll.
Just contact him.

[kuparikettu]

A few years ago I contacted different courier companies to ask about the x-ray. All of them answered that they usually do x-ray all shipments, even those send through land routes in Europe. Fedex doesn't x-ray all, but does random checks. One larger company I contacted would have offered to use sniffer instead but their services were intended for larger businesses.

However, I wouldn't be worried. There is a great difference between the small energy x-ray machines used for this kind of work and those used for checked luggage on airplanes. The amount of exposure by those machines is smaller than the radiation absorbed during the flight. I live in Finland, so pretty much all packages sent to Germany are sent as airmail nowadays. Considering the amount of film sent to Andec for example, I think I would have heard of problems if there had been some.

Just today I myself shipped some super-8 (200T, 500T) to be processed in Germany and some 16mm (250D) to USA for processing and scanning. I asked if the lab in the States had some foreign customers and whether there had been any x-ray damage in their material. Their answer? None. I'll let you know if I run in any problems myself this time.

[kuparikettu]

Just to add something to my post above: a few years ago I did send some super-8 negative film to Andec. I had attached those Kodak stickers "Do not x-ray. Do not ship if x-ray mandatory. Contact sender immediately." to my package. At some point I noticed that my packages weren't moving according to the tracking information. They were being kept here in Finland. I contacted the postal services and they said they had seen my stickers -- apparently the x-ray was mandatory. Well, I gave them my permission to ship regardless. Never noticed any damage even though some of the material was 500T.

[doug]

Just to add something to my post above: a few years ago I did send some super-8 negative film to Andec. I had attached those Kodak stickers "Do not x-ray. Do not ship if x-ray mandatory. Contact sender immediately." to my package. At some point I noticed that my packages weren't moving according to the tracking information. They were being kept here in Finland. I contacted the postal services and they said they had seen my stickers -- apparently the x-ray was mandatory. Well, I gave them my permission to ship regardless. Never noticed any damage even though some of the material was 500T.

Thanks for this and also to everyone for your views. Although I am still in the dark about how the Royal Mail carries out their X-ray checks, I am now a little more confident that damage may not occur. I would be grateful though if anyone from UK can pass on their own experiences especially in the last few months. As for me, I think I will first try sending a less important film to Andec, and see how that fares.
....that's if the weather holds today. You know the feeling.... a few more metres of film on the roll in the camera, and that conflict of not wasting it in the desire to get it out :-x

[Angus]

That's probably the best route, send something less important to Andec first and see if there are any issues.

It's been a while but some years ago I used to regularly send super 8 films to Andec in Berlin and Dwayne's in Kansas...probably 2010 was the last time so before the latest shenanigans.

I doubt you will get any details on precisely what equipment the Royal Mail or any carrier might use to scan packages....for security reasons. They won't tell anyone in case someone attempting to transport dangerous or illegal items can gain an advantage from knowing.

[doug]

Yes I've now sent off the less important film, some 200D. So we shall see. I ended up using the last of this roll on a fairly easy effects shot for a film I'm making.
http://filmisfine.co/my-first-try-with- ... -on-bolex/

[doug]

So I got them back !
First the 200D Avichrome, then the 100D Ektachrome which was the film I was most concerned about. And the results are fine. No X-ray damage whatsoever. I'm very relieved as the Ektachrome had a lot of work on it.
To reiterate, I posted both films separately by Royal Mail, to Andec in Germany. Apparently, Royal Mail only go by air. On each package I attached the Kodak Do not X-ray sticker.
So I guess my conclusions are either:
1. Royal Mail's use of X-ray machines doesn't affect film under 200 asa ? Similar perhaps to the hand luggage machines at airports.
or
2. They randomly x-ray check the packages ? Similar to Fedex. Presumably if this is so, the operator would hopefully take note of the Kodak sticker. Incidentally, I never tape down the gummed flap of the jiffy bag, to make it easy as possible to open for inspection.

I don't know if anyone else wants to comment regarding their experiences with Royal Mail. Based on mine I will certainly be sending more to Andec who incidentally did a nice clean job as usual. The alternative I suppose is DIY processing which I haven't attempted yet with E6 movie.

[woods01]

I only have experience with Canada Post and USPS. But I feel the whole mail x-ray thing is either an urban myth or is related to an incident happening in the 1960s when machines were much more harmful because people thought radiation was a miracle and tobacco was endorsed by doctors.

The nearest local lab in my country is 3000 km away in Toronto, after that I have the choice of shipping to labs in the states. In 10+ years of super 8 filming, I've had my film shipped to the Kodak's Swiss lab, Toronto, Seattle and good ol' Dwaynes in Kansas. I don't put any x-ray labels on and never have I had a problem.

Just think of the chaos at a busy airport about checking x-ray'd carry on luggage. Now imagine that on the scale of which mail is handled. For a big country like the U.S. its literally billions of pieces of mail. There is not enough time in the day to sit and visually check each piece of mail.

[doug]

Maybe true, but at the same time we should be aware that there is theoretically at least, some risk. It is only since last December that Royal Mail have said they do X-raying. Also perhaps there is less of a risk with super-8 because it is lighter in weight and no metal (apart from silver :roll: ) ?
I suppose it comes down to how much we value a certain film that's been through your camera. It varies of course. Some can be replaced or shrugged off, others can't. Then there is always a risk of loss in the post. Maybe the certain way is to do it yourself if you trust yourself :lol: