Hi there!
This morning I received some awesome footage from Friedemann, who has been out filming with our original prototype camera. I think it's worth sharing even though the camera used, is not the final production model which we are still waiting for our subcontractors to deliver parts for.
The footage has been 2K scanned by the good folks over at GammaRayDigital in Boston.
Head over to our webpage at http://www.Logmar.dk and visit our sample video section to have a look, but please bring your comments back here for everyone to view and enjoy!
we would like to thank the following people for their support:
The users of Cinematography.com and Filmshooting.com for their endless amount of good ideas and valuable feedback
Friedemann Wachsmuth for writing the great article at Filmkorn.org, and volunteering as a beta tester.
Perry Paolantonio from GammaRayDigital for providing us with sponsored 2K scanning.
Jürgen Lossau for writing the inspirational Super8 books as well as an article about our camera.
As well as all the people out there who has shared our story on Facebook, twitter and other social medias!
Best regards
The Logmar Team
Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
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milesandjules
- Posts: 258
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Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
nice one guys….cant wait to get my hands on one of these cameras 
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Beautiful!
R8: Bolex B8
S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)
DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4
S16: Bolex Rex4
S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)
DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4
S16: Bolex Rex4
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Hello from Norway
Finally something new on Super 8mm. This I have been waiting for so long – a professional Super 8mm cam built with today’s technology.
I bought my first Super 8mm camera in 1968, but changed to Single 8mm in 1972, first the Fujica Z-800, and then the Fujica ZC-1000 with interchangeable C-mount lenses. As of today, I have acquired several top of the line cameras, like the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II (actually the Jubileè model in black), 2 6008, one is the 6008S, the other 6008-PRO with crystal sync module (and of course crystal-sync recorders) and my favorite; the Fujica-ZC-1000. With that I can shoot backwards by running the film to the end with shutter closed/lens-cap on, and start shooting from the end of the cassette (which then will be the first shot, but backwards when projected) to the beginning – even in slow-motion at 72 fps. All the Fujica cameras, even the simplest ones, have a built in, high precision, steel pressure plate at the gate. In between themselves these cameras can do just about everything, even shooting in widescreen. That is accomplished by using A-lenses with a compression ratio of 1 : 1,5, which gives a nice 18 : 9 screen format.
All these cameras serves me well, and are in excellent condition, but the one important feature they all lack, is 60m (200 ft.) magazine. At one time there was for sale very nice 60m magazine for the Beaulieu 6008, 7008 and 9008 cameras. (Beaulieu also had a model 8008, early 80’s I think it was, but that was a “professional†Video-8, or maybe it was Hi-8, videocamera.)
Unfortunately these magazines was not produced in any quantities, so they are very rare. They were really ahead of their time, and I think if they had been available today, they would have sold in higher numbers than they did then.
Anyway, a 60m magazine (120m is way too big), gives 10 minutes of continues running time at 24 fps. and having this is worth it’s money. Unfortunately the Logmar camera has not been designed for this, but with it’s film-path design it should not be too difficult to include this important feature in what probably will be the only available professional Super 8mm camera. It would be too disappointing if this completely new camera, which already is so well designed, should lack this important feature.
I really hope the designers take notice of this. As far as I can understand there should be no big problem. The film-path is perfect for a 60m external magazine, the motors can pull the load, so the only thing to be done, is re-design the top of the camera to attach the magazine. The magazine would however, probably need it’s own motor for the take-up reel. It would cost a little extra to re-design the top of the camera to allow for a magazine, but this magazine could be sold as extra, and then the price of the basic camera would not increase too much.
This 60m magazine is on top of my “features to be added†list, but I also have a few more features I would like to see on this camera to make it a real professional camera.
Next feature is the view-finder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is basically useless for anything else then camera/feature/setting applications. Shooting outside, in bright sunlight, the monitor on the side of the camera is of no use. This camera should have an “old fashioned†optical view-finder, with the necessary information about exposure, vu-meters (or LED) for sound monitoring etc “built inâ€Â. Both the Beaulieu-cameras and the Fujica ZC-1000 camera use a return mirror single-lens reflex viewfinder, and the same system is, as far as I understand, already in the Logmar camera. This system gives 100% light to the viewfinder AND to the film. By using the same system, the light-metering system will also get necessary “information†thru this system.
Manual setting of the aperture by turning the aperture-ring on the lens MUST be possible.
The same goes for setting of the film-speed (ASA). It is a MUST that this can be done manually, like on the Beaulieu-cameras.
Basically all features should be MANUAL. Automatic might be OK for some, but NOT on the account of manual settings
Another important thing on a professional camera, is that the view-finder allows you to see MORE than is recorded on the film. When using microphones on a pole, you must be able to see the microphone in the viewfinder before it is recorded on the film. Framing showing the 16:9 recorded area, with space on all sides to allow the cameraman to see what goes on right outside the recorded fram is necessary.
If optical viewfinder is not possible, then the camera MUST have a high resolution electronic view-finder like on professional video cameras. I know professional 16/35mm filmcameras for a long time now have had “video-tapsâ€Â, and the Logmar camera already has one. That is perfect. Then the “video-people†can mount a small monitor on top of the camera thru the “video-tapâ€Â-connection, and this can then also be used if one, under controlled shooting, wants to connect a bigger (BIG) monitor for viewing, that can easily be done also wireless. This option gives the “best of both worldsâ€Â. And that should not cost much extra, as the design probably already have the components needed for an electronic viewfinder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is a real “turn-off†for me.
Sound recording level MUST also have manual adjustment. Monitoring thru headset connected to the camera must also be possible, with adjustable level.
Another feature that really is needed on a camera like this, is STEREO recording, and 2 XLR mic inputs with phantom-feeding of the mics.
Another very important feature on a camera like this, is that it has SINGLE FRAME SHOOTING, in addition to many other recording speeds, including 24/25 fps. For reasonably good slow-motion (when working with models), the higher the speed, the better, and the minimum for the highest speed should be 100 + frames pr. second. The Beaulieu 4008 can shoot with variable speed from 4 to 80 fps, and this can be done with no flickering in the exposure. The ZC-1000 has a maximum slow-motion of 72fps, which is too little really.
With all the good features the camera already have, like high precision film gate with pressure plate, the filmpath, C-mount for the lenses, 16:9 gate, digital sound, video-tap etc., this camera has the potential of becoming the best S8mm camera EVER BUILT, and I hope the manufacturer will take into consideration these suggestions of additional features.
As for me, (and probably many others) also doing underwater filming, an underwater housing would be excellent. This housing would also need to take the 60m magazine. This underwater housing, would also serve well as blimp in critical sound-recording situations.
So, in short, what I would like to see is:
1: Option for 60m (200ft.) magazine.
2: A good, optical viewer. If not possible, a good, high resolution,electronic viewfinder(B/W, or color)
3: Manual settings of film-speed (ASA, DIN)
4: Manual settings of sound-recording level.
5: Manual settings of aperture by using the aperture-ring on the lens, connected to the light-metering system.
6: Wide range of shooting-speeds – frames pr. second. MUST HAVE single frame for animation.
7: Film Frame Counter, counting single frames. Important for animation.
8: Underwater housing taking 60m magazine, and can also serve as blimp for good sound recording.
I am fully aware of that this will increase the price of the camera, but I am willing to pay for that, as this will increase the range of use for the camera much more than the increase in price.
Some of these suggestions might be Add On Accessories, but some of them must be on the basic camera.
Well, one can always dream, and it is important to remember that this is probably the ONLY new camera that will be available. It is aimed at the professionals, because that is where the S8mm market is today. It would therefore be sad to see this final opportunity for a perfect camera go down the drain just to save a few bucks.
So film-makers out there; what do you say? Are you willing to pay a little extra today to get the best camera ever, that will last as long as S8mm film is with us?
And the best of all, a MOVIE-CAMERA or FILM-CAMERA IS FUTURE-PROOF. Unlike the “perfect†video equipment, that needs to be replaced every time there is some advance in picture-quality, WE CAN STICK WITH OUR FILM-CAMERAS FAR INTO THE FUTURE, AS ALL IMPROVEMENTS IN PICTURE-QUALITY IS IN THE RECORDING MEDIUM – THE RAW-STOCK – THE FILM. AND THAT IMPROVEMENT WE – THE GOOD, "OLD FASHIONED", FILM LOVERS – GET FOR FREE. :lol:
The video-guy buy state of the art equipment today, costing a fortune, and 6 months from now, he needs to replace all of it to stay on top. Sure, film stock is more expensive to buy, but our cameras will outlast most of us using film today.
Make the Logmar camera the best ever, and it will sell like “hakka møkkâ€Â. (Norwegian expression and translate into something like “chopped shitâ€Â.
And that means it sells in huge quantities.
And Danish manufacturers, if you read this, having your response on this forum would be great. There are many exited people out here, and with some modifications I would probably by 2 cameras.
Kjell Roar, Norway
Finally something new on Super 8mm. This I have been waiting for so long – a professional Super 8mm cam built with today’s technology.
I bought my first Super 8mm camera in 1968, but changed to Single 8mm in 1972, first the Fujica Z-800, and then the Fujica ZC-1000 with interchangeable C-mount lenses. As of today, I have acquired several top of the line cameras, like the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II (actually the Jubileè model in black), 2 6008, one is the 6008S, the other 6008-PRO with crystal sync module (and of course crystal-sync recorders) and my favorite; the Fujica-ZC-1000. With that I can shoot backwards by running the film to the end with shutter closed/lens-cap on, and start shooting from the end of the cassette (which then will be the first shot, but backwards when projected) to the beginning – even in slow-motion at 72 fps. All the Fujica cameras, even the simplest ones, have a built in, high precision, steel pressure plate at the gate. In between themselves these cameras can do just about everything, even shooting in widescreen. That is accomplished by using A-lenses with a compression ratio of 1 : 1,5, which gives a nice 18 : 9 screen format.
All these cameras serves me well, and are in excellent condition, but the one important feature they all lack, is 60m (200 ft.) magazine. At one time there was for sale very nice 60m magazine for the Beaulieu 6008, 7008 and 9008 cameras. (Beaulieu also had a model 8008, early 80’s I think it was, but that was a “professional†Video-8, or maybe it was Hi-8, videocamera.)
Unfortunately these magazines was not produced in any quantities, so they are very rare. They were really ahead of their time, and I think if they had been available today, they would have sold in higher numbers than they did then.
Anyway, a 60m magazine (120m is way too big), gives 10 minutes of continues running time at 24 fps. and having this is worth it’s money. Unfortunately the Logmar camera has not been designed for this, but with it’s film-path design it should not be too difficult to include this important feature in what probably will be the only available professional Super 8mm camera. It would be too disappointing if this completely new camera, which already is so well designed, should lack this important feature.
I really hope the designers take notice of this. As far as I can understand there should be no big problem. The film-path is perfect for a 60m external magazine, the motors can pull the load, so the only thing to be done, is re-design the top of the camera to attach the magazine. The magazine would however, probably need it’s own motor for the take-up reel. It would cost a little extra to re-design the top of the camera to allow for a magazine, but this magazine could be sold as extra, and then the price of the basic camera would not increase too much.
This 60m magazine is on top of my “features to be added†list, but I also have a few more features I would like to see on this camera to make it a real professional camera.
Next feature is the view-finder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is basically useless for anything else then camera/feature/setting applications. Shooting outside, in bright sunlight, the monitor on the side of the camera is of no use. This camera should have an “old fashioned†optical view-finder, with the necessary information about exposure, vu-meters (or LED) for sound monitoring etc “built inâ€Â. Both the Beaulieu-cameras and the Fujica ZC-1000 camera use a return mirror single-lens reflex viewfinder, and the same system is, as far as I understand, already in the Logmar camera. This system gives 100% light to the viewfinder AND to the film. By using the same system, the light-metering system will also get necessary “information†thru this system.
Manual setting of the aperture by turning the aperture-ring on the lens MUST be possible.
The same goes for setting of the film-speed (ASA). It is a MUST that this can be done manually, like on the Beaulieu-cameras.
Basically all features should be MANUAL. Automatic might be OK for some, but NOT on the account of manual settings
Another important thing on a professional camera, is that the view-finder allows you to see MORE than is recorded on the film. When using microphones on a pole, you must be able to see the microphone in the viewfinder before it is recorded on the film. Framing showing the 16:9 recorded area, with space on all sides to allow the cameraman to see what goes on right outside the recorded fram is necessary.
If optical viewfinder is not possible, then the camera MUST have a high resolution electronic view-finder like on professional video cameras. I know professional 16/35mm filmcameras for a long time now have had “video-tapsâ€Â, and the Logmar camera already has one. That is perfect. Then the “video-people†can mount a small monitor on top of the camera thru the “video-tapâ€Â-connection, and this can then also be used if one, under controlled shooting, wants to connect a bigger (BIG) monitor for viewing, that can easily be done also wireless. This option gives the “best of both worldsâ€Â. And that should not cost much extra, as the design probably already have the components needed for an electronic viewfinder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is a real “turn-off†for me.
Sound recording level MUST also have manual adjustment. Monitoring thru headset connected to the camera must also be possible, with adjustable level.
Another feature that really is needed on a camera like this, is STEREO recording, and 2 XLR mic inputs with phantom-feeding of the mics.
Another very important feature on a camera like this, is that it has SINGLE FRAME SHOOTING, in addition to many other recording speeds, including 24/25 fps. For reasonably good slow-motion (when working with models), the higher the speed, the better, and the minimum for the highest speed should be 100 + frames pr. second. The Beaulieu 4008 can shoot with variable speed from 4 to 80 fps, and this can be done with no flickering in the exposure. The ZC-1000 has a maximum slow-motion of 72fps, which is too little really.
With all the good features the camera already have, like high precision film gate with pressure plate, the filmpath, C-mount for the lenses, 16:9 gate, digital sound, video-tap etc., this camera has the potential of becoming the best S8mm camera EVER BUILT, and I hope the manufacturer will take into consideration these suggestions of additional features.
As for me, (and probably many others) also doing underwater filming, an underwater housing would be excellent. This housing would also need to take the 60m magazine. This underwater housing, would also serve well as blimp in critical sound-recording situations.
So, in short, what I would like to see is:
1: Option for 60m (200ft.) magazine.
2: A good, optical viewer. If not possible, a good, high resolution,electronic viewfinder(B/W, or color)
3: Manual settings of film-speed (ASA, DIN)
4: Manual settings of sound-recording level.
5: Manual settings of aperture by using the aperture-ring on the lens, connected to the light-metering system.
6: Wide range of shooting-speeds – frames pr. second. MUST HAVE single frame for animation.
7: Film Frame Counter, counting single frames. Important for animation.
8: Underwater housing taking 60m magazine, and can also serve as blimp for good sound recording.
I am fully aware of that this will increase the price of the camera, but I am willing to pay for that, as this will increase the range of use for the camera much more than the increase in price.
Some of these suggestions might be Add On Accessories, but some of them must be on the basic camera.
Well, one can always dream, and it is important to remember that this is probably the ONLY new camera that will be available. It is aimed at the professionals, because that is where the S8mm market is today. It would therefore be sad to see this final opportunity for a perfect camera go down the drain just to save a few bucks.
So film-makers out there; what do you say? Are you willing to pay a little extra today to get the best camera ever, that will last as long as S8mm film is with us?And the best of all, a MOVIE-CAMERA or FILM-CAMERA IS FUTURE-PROOF. Unlike the “perfect†video equipment, that needs to be replaced every time there is some advance in picture-quality, WE CAN STICK WITH OUR FILM-CAMERAS FAR INTO THE FUTURE, AS ALL IMPROVEMENTS IN PICTURE-QUALITY IS IN THE RECORDING MEDIUM – THE RAW-STOCK – THE FILM. AND THAT IMPROVEMENT WE – THE GOOD, "OLD FASHIONED", FILM LOVERS – GET FOR FREE. :lol:
The video-guy buy state of the art equipment today, costing a fortune, and 6 months from now, he needs to replace all of it to stay on top. Sure, film stock is more expensive to buy, but our cameras will outlast most of us using film today.
Make the Logmar camera the best ever, and it will sell like “hakka møkkâ€Â. (Norwegian expression and translate into something like “chopped shitâ€Â.
And that means it sells in huge quantities.
And Danish manufacturers, if you read this, having your response on this forum would be great. There are many exited people out here, and with some modifications I would probably by 2 cameras.
Kjell Roar, Norway
-
MovieStuff
- Posts: 6135
- Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:07 am
- Real name: Roger Evans
- Location: Kerrville, Texas
- Contact:
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
This looks just terrific. Rock steady. I think you guys a did a great job. One question I have has more to do with the transfer. It appears rotate or rock back and forth, especially near the end. It's not in the camera original but introduced in the transfer because you can see the gate edge move. Just curious how it was telecined. Otherwise, looks wonderful.
Roger
Roger
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
I was reading their info at GammaRay Digital's web site. They imply that stabilization is applied during transfer on their 2K sprocketless frame by frame scanner. I suppose that is normal for a sprocketless scanner? I'm not a telecine expert, but it looks like the rocking at the end is caused by the stabilzation software not quite compensating for end of the roll mis-alignment, as if it didn't have enough leader or something. It would be interesting to find out what caused that. But the footage is excellent. Wachsmuth did a nice job with the negative stock.MovieStuff wrote:One question I have has more to do with the transfer. It appears rotate or rock back and forth, especially near the end. It's not in the camera original but introduced in the transfer because you can see the gate edge move. Just curious how it was telecined. Otherwise, looks wonderful.
Roger
Wade
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Andreas Wideroe
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2273
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 4:50 pm
- Real name: Andreas Wideroe
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- Contact:
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
I think they use a Lasergraphics Scanstation 2K scanner. Probably not a very graded scan and certainly not cleaned negatives, but the image stability looks good. As Roger points out, the end seems a bit weird. Also, I think the images are a bit soft, sort of not perfectly in focus? Does the light fall of on the left and right sides? Not sure.
Anyways - I love the project and I think you (Logmar) are doing a terrific job. Keep up the great work and I'd be very interested in purchasing one of these cameras.
Cheers,
Andreas
Anyways - I love the project and I think you (Logmar) are doing a terrific job. Keep up the great work and I'd be very interested in purchasing one of these cameras.
Cheers,
Andreas
Andreas Wideroe
Filmshooting | Com - Administrator
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Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Very beautiful but yes, I agree with Andreas, it's a bit soft. Everything else seems so perfect, I wonder if it was operator error?
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
I agree it looked a bit soft on some of the wide angle shots. It could be a combo of Vimeo compression and critical focus? Other than that I think the wide gate is a must, and the registration is near perfect. The images look ok but i would have graded them a lot different. Overall, what i see here has me excited about the notion of what i can get with it. The only thing holding me back is lack of single frame... which they may be working on? Single frame concepts are one of my favorite things to do with S8, and it would be perfect with a wider image this steady.
Reborn member since Sept 2003
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bottlegardener
- Posts: 16
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- Real name: Peter Woodford
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Wow truly amazing. It'll be out of my budget but I really hope my local film co-op acquires one.
It'd be really nice to see a few 2k stills to take Vimeo and Neat Video out of the equation.
It'd be really nice to see a few 2k stills to take Vimeo and Neat Video out of the equation.
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Well done ! nice to see your Logmar up and running , only thing that put's me off is no view finder , for the rest it,s very nice , and out of my price range ?
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
The makes a good argument for V3 50D in regular 8mm.
Dr. Rima Laibow Warns Globalists Preparing New Bio Attack / Learn the Secret History of COVID
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Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Hi Kjell,
I wanted to comment on this thread on the forum,
Therefore we did not want to deviate away from the standard cassette.
That being said we are contemplating making a larger custom made cassette which will fit inside our camera but we haven't reached out to third party film providers yet so this is still an idea on the drawing board.
Since we are designing for a niche market and we want to allow as many people as to possible prosper from our invention by keeping the cost at a tolerable level we had to "walk away" from having an optical viewfinder.
we would have spend our entire R&D budget on an optical viewfinder and not only that but we wouldn't have had any money left to investigate follow-on models such as S35 etc...
You can record stereo via the Line-input - the microphone input is mono only, there's one regular jack and a XLR input with optional phantom power.
If we had to add one extra phantom powered microphone that would have increased the price by 100 EURO (~140$ USD), so we decided not to.
You can use an external mixer from eBay that has two XLR inputs and outputs line jack and use that for this purpose - those mixers are typically cheaper.
Today our range is 8fps to 54fps which is suitable for 99% of the market we are trying to address which is either professionals or semiprofessionals wanting to film music videos, weddings or art projects. (or people who are just fed up with digital) this market space *typically* has no need for slow motion beyond 54fps.
That said we might spin a derivative of our camera that had higher frame rates if enough people said they needed this feature - however that would mean that the minimum speed would most likely increase from 8fps to perhaps 20fps.
Please remember that our camera has to pull much more load than a typical camera as we are threading the film outside the cassette which causes greater inertia and our motor is already consuming 5 watts as it is today to the battery pack would also have to be bigger.
The electronics inside our camera can synchronize up to 200 fps if the motor and it's power supply had the ability to support it.
If you really want super slow motion to 100fps we could perhaps make a special variant that I estimate would cost 1.500 EURO (~2050$ USD) more than the existing model, since it would be a complete customized solution.
if people wants such a model please come forward.
2. Optical viewfonder is not an option, we already have high resolution digital.
3. Already possible today
4. Already possible today
5. Already possible today
6. Already possible today - time lapse is not possible on existing prototype we are awaiting production model to verify this operation.
7. Already possible today
8. Not an option from us - perhaps someone else might want to do this.
We believe we are already serving the majority of the market with the existing camera obviously there are things that we would have liked to do such as optical viewfinder - clearly we wanted this from the beginning but this camera would never have been a reality if that was a hard requirement - we have already gambled the equivalent money of a small house on this camera and so far we are not even sure we can sell the amount of cameras (preferably over 20pcs) we need to start initial production and make this a viable project to do in the first place - hence the need for a crowd funding campaign as we cannot fund all the initial investments into tooling/start-up costs etc. by ourselves.
Best regards
Lasse
I wanted to comment on this thread on the forum,
When we designed the Logmar S8 camera we took into account that the super-8 film media was already on decline - film stock was dissapearing from the market and we didn't want to make it harder for people to use our camera by people having to load film stock by themselves onto a custom spool or cassette in either a "dark bag" or in a dark room - this would be impossible for a "first timer" also we are not in the business of selling film so we would have to partner up with third party vendors to fill a custom made cassette and we believed this would be simply too expensive for anyone to accept.Anyway, a 60m magazine (120m is way too big), gives 10 minutes of continues running time at 24 fps. and having this is worth it’s money. Unfortunately the Logmar camera has not been designed for this, but with it’s film-path design it should not be too difficult to include this important feature in what probably will be the only available professional Super 8mm camera. It would be too disappointing if this completely new camera, which already is so well designed, should lack this important feature.
I really hope the designers take notice of this. As far as I can understand there should be no big problem. The film-path is perfect for a 60m external magazine, the motors can pull the load, so the only thing to be done, is re-design the top of the camera to attach the magazine. The magazine would however, probably need it’s own motor for the take-up reel. It would cost a little extra to re-design the top of the camera to allow for a magazine, but this magazine could be sold as extra, and then the price of the basic camera would not increase too much.
This 60m magazine is on top of my “features to be added†list, but I also have a few more features I would like to see on this camera to make it a real professional camera.
Therefore we did not want to deviate away from the standard cassette.
That being said we are contemplating making a larger custom made cassette which will fit inside our camera but we haven't reached out to third party film providers yet so this is still an idea on the drawing board.
When we designed our camera we were in contact with optics companies that could design us a optical viewfinder with focal adjust etc. however the price for such a design from the third party companies we contacted was more than 25.000$ USD in initial design fee and carried a minimum order quantity of 500pcs at roughly 500$ a piece which would have meant a massive investment of 275.000$ USDNext feature is the view-finder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is basically useless for anything else then camera/feature/setting applications. Shooting outside, in bright sunlight, the monitor on the side of the camera is of no use. This camera should have an “old fashioned†optical view-finder, with the necessary information about exposure, vu-meters (or LED) for sound monitoring etc “built inâ€Â. Both the Beaulieu-cameras and the Fujica ZC-1000 camera use a return mirror single-lens reflex viewfinder, and the same system is, as far as I understand, already in the Logmar camera. This system gives 100% light to the viewfinder AND to the film. By using the same system, the light-metering system will also get necessary “information†thru this system.
Since we are designing for a niche market and we want to allow as many people as to possible prosper from our invention by keeping the cost at a tolerable level we had to "walk away" from having an optical viewfinder.
we would have spend our entire R&D budget on an optical viewfinder and not only that but we wouldn't have had any money left to investigate follow-on models such as S35 etc...
All these functions is already possible.Manual setting of the aperture by turning the aperture-ring on the lens MUST be possible.
The same goes for setting of the film-speed (ASA). It is a MUST that this can be done manually, like on the Beaulieu-cameras.
Basically all features should be MANUAL. Automatic might be OK for some, but NOT on the account of manual settings
This is also possibleAnother important thing on a professional camera, is that the view-finder allows you to see MORE than is recorded on the film. When using microphones on a pole, you must be able to see the microphone in the viewfinder before it is recorded on the film. Framing showing the 16:9 recorded area, with space on all sides to allow the cameraman to see what goes on right outside the recorded fram is necessary.
We already have the option to allow external monitor to be attached simultaniously with the side monitor via a industry standard CVBS/Phono connector.If optical viewfinder is not possible, then the camera MUST have a high resolution electronic view-finder like on professional video cameras. I know professional 16/35mm filmcameras for a long time now have had “video-tapsâ€Â, and the Logmar camera already has one. That is perfect. Then the “video-people†can mount a small monitor on top of the camera thru the “video-tapâ€Â-connection, and this can then also be used if one, under controlled shooting, wants to connect a bigger (BIG) monitor for viewing, that can easily be done also wireless. This option gives the “best of both worldsâ€Â. And that should not cost much extra, as the design probably already have the components needed for an electronic viewfinder. The small monitor on the side of the camera is a real “turn-off†for me.
You can set both the monitor volume and recording gain manually. There's even the provision for Automatic Gain Control if you want it for recording voice for example - also it's possible to adjust Treble and Bass by a firmware upgrade later on.Sound recording level MUST also have manual adjustment. Monitoring thru headset connected to the camera must also be possible, with adjustable level.
Another feature that really is needed on a camera like this, is STEREO recording, and 2 XLR mic inputs with phantom-feeding of the mics.
You can record stereo via the Line-input - the microphone input is mono only, there's one regular jack and a XLR input with optional phantom power.
If we had to add one extra phantom powered microphone that would have increased the price by 100 EURO (~140$ USD), so we decided not to.
You can use an external mixer from eBay that has two XLR inputs and outputs line jack and use that for this purpose - those mixers are typically cheaper.
The market we are trying to address has no need for "crash test filming" with frame rates > 54fps so this was never a part of our consideration.Another very important feature on a camera like this, is that it has SINGLE FRAME SHOOTING, in addition to many other recording speeds, including 24/25 fps. For reasonably good slow-motion (when working with models), the higher the speed, the better, and the minimum for the highest speed should be 100 + frames pr. second. The Beaulieu 4008 can shoot with variable speed from 4 to 80 fps, and this can be done with no flickering in the exposure. The ZC-1000 has a maximum slow-motion of 72fps, which is too little really.
Today our range is 8fps to 54fps which is suitable for 99% of the market we are trying to address which is either professionals or semiprofessionals wanting to film music videos, weddings or art projects. (or people who are just fed up with digital) this market space *typically* has no need for slow motion beyond 54fps.
That said we might spin a derivative of our camera that had higher frame rates if enough people said they needed this feature - however that would mean that the minimum speed would most likely increase from 8fps to perhaps 20fps.
Please remember that our camera has to pull much more load than a typical camera as we are threading the film outside the cassette which causes greater inertia and our motor is already consuming 5 watts as it is today to the battery pack would also have to be bigger.
The electronics inside our camera can synchronize up to 200 fps if the motor and it's power supply had the ability to support it.
If you really want super slow motion to 100fps we could perhaps make a special variant that I estimate would cost 1.500 EURO (~2050$ USD) more than the existing model, since it would be a complete customized solution.
if people wants such a model please come forward.
1. Not an option - we are considering a larger "custom" cassette though.So, in short, what I would like to see is:
1: Option for 60m (200ft.) magazine.
2: A good, optical viewer. If not possible, a good, high resolution,electronic viewfinder(B/W, or color)
3: Manual settings of film-speed (ASA, DIN)
4: Manual settings of sound-recording level.
5: Manual settings of aperture by using the aperture-ring on the lens, connected to the light-metering system.
6: Wide range of shooting-speeds – frames pr. second. MUST HAVE single frame for animation.
7: Film Frame Counter, counting single frames. Important for animation.
8: Underwater housing taking 60m magazine, and can also serve as blimp for good sound recording.
2. Optical viewfonder is not an option, we already have high resolution digital.
3. Already possible today
4. Already possible today
5. Already possible today
6. Already possible today - time lapse is not possible on existing prototype we are awaiting production model to verify this operation.
7. Already possible today
8. Not an option from us - perhaps someone else might want to do this.
We believe we are already serving the majority of the market with the existing camera obviously there are things that we would have liked to do such as optical viewfinder - clearly we wanted this from the beginning but this camera would never have been a reality if that was a hard requirement - we have already gambled the equivalent money of a small house on this camera and so far we are not even sure we can sell the amount of cameras (preferably over 20pcs) we need to start initial production and make this a viable project to do in the first place - hence the need for a crowd funding campaign as we cannot fund all the initial investments into tooling/start-up costs etc. by ourselves.
Best regards
Lasse
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
I think 54fps is good enough, but what about single frame or timelapse? Could it be programable or better yet accept an intervolometer or single frame remote switch? And i think you'll sell more than 20 for sure.Another very important feature on a camera like this, is that it has SINGLE FRAME SHOOTING, in addition to many other recording speeds, including 24/25 fps. For reasonably good slow-motion (when working with models), the higher the speed, the better, and the minimum for the highest speed should be 100 + frames pr. second. The Beaulieu 4008 can shoot with variable speed from 4 to 80 fps, and this can be done with no flickering in the exposure. The ZC-1000 has a maximum slow-motion of 72fps, which is too little really
Reborn member since Sept 2003
Re: Logmar S8 footage revealed!
Hi Lasse, and thanks a lot for thorough reply.
It's good to see that many of the features I wanted are already included. Unfortunately some are not. I do however, understand there are choices that have to be made, but I really would have liked to see 60m magazine added. I am, among other things, making wildlife films, and under these circumstances 2,5 minutes of running time is too little. Same goes for many other situations. Regarding availablility of raw stock, as far as I can remember, PRO-8 can perforate and split 35mm stock sent to them, into S8mm. At least they used too. This also has one more big advantage, if you can "lay your hands" on some 35mm polyester raw-stock, you can load a 60m magazine with a lot more film than 60 meters. And also Wittner at least used to sell S8mm film on core/reel for the Beaulieu 60 meter magazines. And remember, if you have a film that expires one year into the future, then, if you store it in your freezer at a temperature of minus 28 degree Celsius, then it's life will be expanded from one year to one thousand years. (This is accordding to Kodak). Storing the film at around minus 15 to 20 degrees Celsius, also means the film will outlast every filmmaker living today. So if it is a big investment today, spread over the years, it will be next to nothing. Yes, I know developing will increase, but still.....
The viewfinder I fully understand, bit I think there is one option to have an "old fashioned viewfinder" on this camera too. Some lenses have their own viewfinder built into them. I don't really know if they can function on this camera, but they probably will. The one draw-back is that they are very expensive.
When it comes to the small side-monitor, is there no way to have an "ordinary" electronic view-finder like the ones you find on pro videocameras, instead of, or in addition to the small side-monitor? Even some small, inexpensive videocameras has a proper viewfinder in addition to the built in screen.
I would gladly pay 100 euro, or even more, extra for two XLR mic-inputs and stereo recording using the mic-inputs. Then there would of course also be necessary with two recording-level controls so that each track could be set separately.
For the other issues, like slow-motion, single frame recording (specially for wild-life shooting) I could of course use my Fujica ZC-1000 or Beaulieu cameras. Just hoping the picture steadiness would not be too different from your camera. I do have a custom-made underwater housing for my Beaulieu 6008 camera, so I will have to keep on using this. But 60m magazine for your camera, would have made a world of difference.
Anyway Lasse, 8) you will find me on your customers list, but I might take you up on the "Custom Made" issue. Thanks a lot for your contribution to The World Of Super 8mm.
Kjell Roar, Norway
It's good to see that many of the features I wanted are already included. Unfortunately some are not. I do however, understand there are choices that have to be made, but I really would have liked to see 60m magazine added. I am, among other things, making wildlife films, and under these circumstances 2,5 minutes of running time is too little. Same goes for many other situations. Regarding availablility of raw stock, as far as I can remember, PRO-8 can perforate and split 35mm stock sent to them, into S8mm. At least they used too. This also has one more big advantage, if you can "lay your hands" on some 35mm polyester raw-stock, you can load a 60m magazine with a lot more film than 60 meters. And also Wittner at least used to sell S8mm film on core/reel for the Beaulieu 60 meter magazines. And remember, if you have a film that expires one year into the future, then, if you store it in your freezer at a temperature of minus 28 degree Celsius, then it's life will be expanded from one year to one thousand years. (This is accordding to Kodak). Storing the film at around minus 15 to 20 degrees Celsius, also means the film will outlast every filmmaker living today. So if it is a big investment today, spread over the years, it will be next to nothing. Yes, I know developing will increase, but still.....
The viewfinder I fully understand, bit I think there is one option to have an "old fashioned viewfinder" on this camera too. Some lenses have their own viewfinder built into them. I don't really know if they can function on this camera, but they probably will. The one draw-back is that they are very expensive.
When it comes to the small side-monitor, is there no way to have an "ordinary" electronic view-finder like the ones you find on pro videocameras, instead of, or in addition to the small side-monitor? Even some small, inexpensive videocameras has a proper viewfinder in addition to the built in screen.
I would gladly pay 100 euro, or even more, extra for two XLR mic-inputs and stereo recording using the mic-inputs. Then there would of course also be necessary with two recording-level controls so that each track could be set separately.
For the other issues, like slow-motion, single frame recording (specially for wild-life shooting) I could of course use my Fujica ZC-1000 or Beaulieu cameras. Just hoping the picture steadiness would not be too different from your camera. I do have a custom-made underwater housing for my Beaulieu 6008 camera, so I will have to keep on using this. But 60m magazine for your camera, would have made a world of difference.
Anyway Lasse, 8) you will find me on your customers list, but I might take you up on the "Custom Made" issue. Thanks a lot for your contribution to The World Of Super 8mm.
Kjell Roar, Norway