This can't be good

[marc]

Even if they shut down S8 production tonight, it'll be two years before we feel it from them-- that traditionally is how long it takes for supplies to disappear.

The only problem is, how do we know that they haven't already done that?

[aj]

It is all speculation! There is no actual Kodak message on stopping anything.

They are still at work like they were here:
'How film is made...' by Kodak © 1958 (old time documentary)
http://www.super8.nl/howfilmismade.htm
With old dutch commentary. Sounding posh nowadays

And there will always be Super-8 as Wittner has already bought and assembled machines to perf/split/package S8 from any film material.

[adamgarner]

I understand exactly why these forums start : It's interesting to read about the future of film.

I do have to say that these forums are all about speculation, and that's fine, but it doesn't do anything but worry me.

My thinking is this : Just shoot and have fun doing it... share it with everyone on facebook, shoot good footage... get good transfers... make it worth your time and everyone elses. Keep the buzz going on how amazing it is. Don't complain about how expensive it is. It's not the 70's anymore. It's a niche market already... but it's still within reach of ANYONE that want's to get into it.

The more it has momentum the less likely it is to die out. If it does, well, we'll talk about it forever I'm sure. It's not going anywhere overnight, and anything could happen.

Consider that CD sales were down and Vinyl sales doubled. What's old often becomes new...

http://www.computerworld.com/action/art ... geNumber=1

[Angus]

It will happen one day....but if I had a few quid for every time I've heard someone say "Kodak is about to make a big decision about the future of film"...then I would be considerably richer than I am now.

MP film is Kodak's biggest moneyspinner now. Super 8 itself may not make (much of) a profit, but they are out of the processing business now with the demise of Kodachrome so they're just selling raw materials...probably at a small profit. They know that many people still get into the larger gagues by starting small. Anyone with any sense would see that significantly changing the MP department at Kodak is not a good idea.

Mind you, if the people running the banks and building societies had any sense, we wouldn't be in the state we currently find outselves in (but that's another argument for another place).

Kodak sadly didn't quite cash in on the digital camera boom, although since that was strictly a temporary thing (most people don't buy a new camera every year) that could, in the long term, be of benefit to them.

Do Kodak make printers? I've not seen on, perhaps they are not available in the UK. I know a few years ago some of the HP professional deskjets had "Kodak Color" logos on them...they had some Kodak developed software I think, for vivid photo printing.

[studiocarter]

I'm buying a deep freezer soon as construction is completed on my new darkroom in the old coal cellar. The room is 9 feet square and has been emptied, cleaned, primered, and frameing has begun for the drop cieling. A Sink, fan, trap, vent and a light arrived from B&H. I'll get the freezer after I move in the enlarger and tanks and movie film developing and printing things. That'll be next week. Sears will deliver.

I was worried about investing into medium format, movie, then ultra large format. That's what I like: ULF. Contact prints. But, I had the darkroom designed to be totally dark for film work. I used to process the movie film in a little bathroom; it should be possible now to use those larger movie film processors I saved. If I order enough film I won't run out for what I do.
As far as still pictures, I'll order some cartons of 120 and 4x5 for the same reasons. Somewhere I have a half carton of really old Ansco 8mm that I shot a roll of and sent to someone who tried to process for me and pictures showed up on it. The black backing messed up his chems and he trashed it, but... I should be able to wipe it off when I try it. So, I'll buy a bunch of black and white 8mm, 120, and 4x5 to freeze.

Two new books have led me to believe in photography being a good thing to do. One is Primitive and the other is Alternative (photography). I've collected plate holders and watched how to make glass plate film on youtube. The books tell how to make paper film and wooden cameras, even lenses.

It's all great stuff to me. There is one part about digitally printing negatives onto plastic to use in a contact frame with salt film???

Film is too cool to mess with to totally go away. It is just too good for teaching with and playing with.

[MIKI-814]

My thinking is this : Just shoot and have fun doing it... share it with everyone on facebook, shoot good footage... get good transfers... make it worth your time and everyone elses. Keep the buzz going on how amazing it is. Don't complain about how expensive it is. It's not the 70's anymore. It's a niche market already... but it's still within reach of ANYONE that want's to get into it.

I couldn't agree more. For example, it's about 20 years now that we're hearing about the death of Super8 and for some reason that death never came. We have a lot of filmstocks now to choose from various sources, so just shot and shot! Otherwise it's ourselves who will kill what is still alive, by worrying and speculating about a future that we don't know.

[Jim Carlile]

Sources tell me that they haven't laid anybody off yet, nobody's gotten a notice and doesn't expect to for at least a few months. That means they're still making film. They're not sitting around.

I'm not really worried at all. Historically, what Kodak does is they make a bunch of film, then a year later announce its discontinuance, leaving a year's supply to go. They've done this with everything-- sound stock, Kodachrome, whatever.

Here's what I think's gonna happen. Kodak's going to finish a bunch of S8, then see how it sells through the year. If sales drop, that's the last we'll get-- if not, they'll schedule another batch. So it's all up to us to buy film big-time and not cut back. Get those sales figures going!

I also think they really, really, really want to sell or spin-off their film division, because it will look good on the books and keep the Wall Street cynics happy. The analysts hate the idea that the old-fashioned part of the business keeps making money-- it defies their own, wierd sense of logic. They will be happier if it's contained within a separate company. I have a strong feeling this is what the big news will be, if there is any.

Also look for them to discontinue a bunch of their MP stocks-- when you examine their catalog and think about it, there's still a lot of fluff there-- just look how many 35mm negative stocks they maintain. Do we really need that many separate film speeds, and is the govt still in the market to buy so many Estar-based camera originals? I'd love to see the sales figures on some of this stuff.

I'd also get that Kodachrome into Dwayne's, because-- and this is speculation, but it's something to consider-- if they're gonna cut back film right now, it's doubtful they'll coat any more still Kodachrome, and that's what's keeping the K-business going. Hopefully they are doing a last batch right now or within a few months previous, but it will definitely be the last.

[marc]

Did I hear anyone mention Fuji?

[Jim Carlile]

According to the news, Fuji lost a LOT of money last year.

Hey, just so no one panics due to all of this (my) idle speculation, the latest expiration date for Kodachrome 64 still film is reported to be 2/10, which means we have at least a year for processing to be around....

[tukon4]

If there's no film for me to shoot, then photography is no more fun for me and I will have to forget it. Digital spoils the fun in a lot of things, it just loses a certain feeling and it's emotional to me. At least my Kodachrome slides will last till the day I die!

[T-Scan]

The local paper said they were laying off in the printing area. The MP division is stil the big money maker, and S8 is part of that...

[reflex]

According to the news, Fuji lost a LOT of money last year.

No, actually Fujifilm reported a net profit of 29.45 billion Yen on sales of 1.9 trillion Yen in the 9 months ending December 31, 2008. Profit is down 69.6% from the previous year, but they're still in the black. Perhaps you're thinking of Fuji Heavy Industries?

[aj]

Now, what is true?
People throw in speculative messages about profits and discontinuation of products. Then others check the reports and news and find that profits are goods and there is no indication of dicontinues.

[reflex]

Now, what is true?
People throw in speculative messages about profits and discontinuation of products. Then others check the reports and news and find that profits are goods and there is no indication of dicontinues.

I would call a 70% drop in Fuji's profits a "discontinuity." The numbers will be worse this year, and I suspect the bulk of their profits come from their digital camera lineup, not film.

[MIKI-814]

It's fascinating how we can predict markets and businesses by just knowing a pair of global numbers, even if these are extremely radical.... things are not so simple and big decissions depend on a lot of data that we don't know.