Super16 Telecine to HD

[fritzcarraldo]

Get a general flat Xfer to HDCam and then do your online off of the HDCam. From there you can take the tape and blow up. It looks good. I've had my stuff done that way.

It will be cheaper than scanning.

Good Luck

Nigel, what do you mean by general flat Xfer? It sounds a good idea though

Well Uppsala, i know you're right, i'm just finding a balance between good and cheap, sometimes you can find a good wine at a very good price, cheaper and better than a expensive one, well, it also depends on the taste anyway,

I know that cinema and wine are not the same tough they both also depend on taste too,

It reminds me those discussions about Digital Vs Film most of the time is just a taste issue ( at least nowdays, RED system can finally compete with film look now)

[Nigel]

What the colorist will do when making a "flat" xfer is try to get as much onto the tape. They make small basic tweeks. So they won't push colors or make drastic changes in contrast. You will do that in your online/tape to tape.

Good Luck

[christoph]

hmm, i don't know...

considering that HDCAM is an 8bit format with 3:1:1 color sampling and medium compression on top of that, i wouldnt want to do a flat technical grade and then do any significant color correction on tape-to-tape - at least not if a theater print is intended.

then again if the source footage is double-x b/w and you dont have a lot of money to spare on it, it's certainly an option, but i doubt that it's in a price range you'd consider cheap:

1hour machine time on a spirit HD with HDCAM recorder: 500EUR
1 HDCAM tape: 80EUR
1 hour tape to tape session on davinci with HDCAM recorder: 200EUR
1 HDCAM tape for master: 50EUR
total with tax close to 1000EUR

making a 15min print is another 4000EUR, give or take depending which machines you wanna use.
(all those numbers are very rough estimates).

scanning is still much more expensive though.

i'm planning to make a scanning system as well, which outputs uncompressed 16bit .tif or 10bit .cin files directly to hardrive, and generate quicktimes proxies from that to edit. this way one could do everything on a home machine and avoid the expensive industry machines.

when do you need to have the scans done?
++ christoph

[Nigel]

I feel very comfortable recommending S16-->HDCam-->35mm workflow. The stuff I've shot that was handled that way meet my requirements. I've sat in on the test prints and helped correct issues in them.

Sure, if I could convince the people with the cash to do 2/4k I would. But, that kind of money hasn't been behind the projects I shoot...Yet.

Good Luck

[christoph]

yeah, i guess you're right.. if it's handled properly the results should look really good.

i was just turning into a quality snob for a second ;)
++ christoph

[Will2]

What I would recommend is doing a "flat" SD transfer, perhaps even an anamorphic DV one, then cutting the project, then go back in and concentrate on the sections that are important in a Spirit session. That's the way 90% of any HD project I've ever seen would do it.

Secondly, skip tape altogether. Do you own an HDCAM (SR) or D1 or even DigiBeta deck? If so then fine; otherwise you'll just be capturing it anyway so capture it directly to the codec you want. I'd suggest ProRes HD (because it's less data to move and thus less expensive and a great looking codec) unless you're planning a film out then I'd go as uncompressed as possible.

For me, the idea of doing a "flat transfer" is counter to what I pay a colorist for. If you're a genius colorist than by all means do a flat transfer and adjust yourself, but I've always been amazed at what a good colorist can do from a film source. Especially someone operating a Spirit or Millennium, generally they have to have some experience to run those machines.

Also don't sell yourself short because you're shooting Double-X. I love it's look and watch out for colorists who might want to crank up the noise reduction; grain is part of it's beauty.

[Nigel]

HDCam xfers are cheap enough where I have never need to go back and just xfer selects. With 2/4k you would use your prescribed method for sure.

As for doing a flat xfer that is simply to get as much information onto the HDCam tape as you can. You then color correct during your online. After you have made your edits.

So you are paying a colorist to do their job...

First to preserve the essence of the film in Xfer.
Second to color grade your material once it is on tape.

Good Luck
PS--You get an SD dub when you do the transfer to begin with sorry if you weren't sharp enough to figure that out.

[Will2]

Yes you are paying the colorist to do their job, and if you are a good colorist and confident in your tools then "flat" is a great way to go.

However, I'd much rather have someone who lives color everyday work closely with me to get what I'm looking for rather than have me try to do it in post with less powerful color tools and less info to work with.

[christoph]

i think nigel meant that you should do the color correction on the online, which means you can have a experienced colorist and a high end color corrector like the davinci if you want.

if you know enough about color correcting yourself, going direct to drive on a good codec like ProRes HQ is quite a bit cheaper since you can save the HDCAM tape and machine time, as well as the whole online session.

++ christoph

[Will2]

Also the ProRes HD codec will save you tons of machine time copying files. Uncompressed files take forever and a day to copy over and will add to the cost.

I can't tell the difference between HDCAM & ProRes & even uncompressed but colorists I work with can. They squeal with HDCAM but generally like HDCAM SR.

Guessing that in Black & White HDCAM's color issues would be less important.

[fritzcarraldo]

What I would recommend is doing a "flat" SD transfer, perhaps even an anamorphic DV one, then cutting the project, then go back in and concentrate on the sections that are important in a Spirit session. That's the way 90% of any HD project I've ever seen would do it.

Secondly, skip tape altogether. Do you own an HDCAM (SR) or D1 or even DigiBeta deck? If so then fine; otherwise you'll just be capturing it anyway so capture it directly to the codec you want. I'd suggest ProRes HD (because it's less data to move and thus less expensive and a great looking codec) unless you're planning a film out then I'd go as uncompressed as possible.

For me, the idea of doing a "flat transfer" is counter to what I pay a colorist for. If you're a genius colorist than by all means do a flat transfer and adjust yourself, but I've always been amazed at what a good colorist can do from a film source. Especially someone operating a Spirit or Millennium, generally they have to have some experience to run those machines.

Also don't sell yourself short because you're shooting Double-X. I love it's look and watch out for colorists who might want to crank up the noise reduction; grain is part of it's beauty.

Well, a friend of mine recommended me the same, to do a Sd transfer, edit it, and then choose the parts of the negative i want to do blowup or telecine and then digital blowup to 35mm or just keeping it in a good quality digital version, i'd prefer to have it done in 35mm,

I've just finished my developing and i'll ask for a borrowed super16mm projector, and to the transfer myself, and then i'll edit it and choose the parts of the film i want to get transferred,

Then i'll have to decide either to make the blowup directly to 35mm or to make it trough digital process, as i said before,

Well, i'll read some of your posts with more attention, thank you once again for all the help, i'll mantain you informed on the progress of the film and then i might post some frames,

[Will2]

Small thing to consider is that if you have a telecine house do a one-light SD transfer first, they'll mark the first frame of the footage (usually with a hole punch) so if you go back and do a carefully graded transfer you can work frame-accurately.

In other words you can tell them exactly what you need transfered by frames on each roll after you've done your SD edit. If you transfer it yourself from a projector you'll be guessing a little on exact ins/outs. Probably not that big of an issue however.