What's up with the jitter-thing?

[Andreas Wideroe]

I'm about to write an article about jittering cartridges and was wondering if anyone here could supply me with some new information and/or observations.

I was in touch with Kodak today and the woman I spoke to didn't know about this problem.

:arrow: Please post all your info under this thread so I can have something to tell them when I contact them back next monday.

Interesting things: Batch numbers, percentage of cartridges affected, personal experience and last, but not least official information from the different Kodak offices.

Thanks!
/Andreas

[MovieStuff]

Hi, Andreas!

As you know, we transfer quite a lot of super 8 and regular 8mm film to video for independent producers.

http://www.moviestuff.tv

As such, we get to see quite a sampling of footage from across the U.S. So far, we have seen jitter in well over 100 carts, ranging from K40 to Plus-X to Tri-X as well as E160. None of the Kodak films seems to be immune to the jitter. If I had to put a ratio on it, I would say that 3 out of 5 rolls were bad with extreme jitter from beginning to end and that all the rolls had some kind of jitter at the beginning during the initial 15 seconds and at the end during the last 15 seconds with abnormal, though minor, breathing throughout. Of course, that doesn't sound like much, but with only 2.5 minutes per roll that represents a LOT of valuable screen time to the low budget producer. We just received some film this week that is supposed to be from the "new batch" of good carts. We will take note of any jitter and post accordingly. This will be interesting as there are about 10 rolls to transfer so the ratio of jitter to non-jitter should be telling. Keep you posted!

Roger

[JIM DUNN]

I have a Super 8 project coming up where reshoots will be impossible, and have over the last couple days, been burrowing into the Kodak monolith, seeking out a clean source of K-40 carts. So far, I've spoken to several retail contact personnel, none of whom admitted to having heard of the problem. My last contact was 'Susan' at the 'Motion Picture Film Order Desk' at Kodak headquarters in Rochester, NY. 1-800-621-3456. She, also, hadn't heard of the problem, but while I was on hold, went back to the warehouse and inquired about the expiration date of K-40 being shipped out right now. 04/2004. Just before putting me on hold she had offered to sell me K-40 in lots of five at $13, including processing. When she returned she seemed reluctant to follow through with the offer, and insisted I contact the Kodak sales rep in Dallas, Dick Hoff at 972-481-1150. I called and left a message early Monday morning and have as yet not heard from him. Susan said that, if such a problem exists, it's not a sales problem, but a manufacturing problem, and I would need to talk to manufacturing people about it, But yet, she refers me to another sales person. So, there you have it. We just sell film, Bub.

[Chris-B]

Hi Andreas,
I had a roll of Tri-X jam completely. I bought two rolls at the same time one jammed up 3 or 4 times in two different cameras but I did get through the whole roll with some jitter not always at the point where it jammed. The other jammed completely after 2ft!! Don't know if this is any help to you?

Numbers on the side of the box are
010/428
0877
Cat 5029046

Number on the Cartridge itself is
199392 (there could be more numbers in front of this but the label has been ripped)

Hope this is some use to you,
Chris.

[Scott Jones]

I have had one roll developed that had terrible jitter the whole way through. I also bought 2 rolls that i soon found out had the old bad batch number stamped on them. The store I bought them from here in Provo, UT would not return them even though they were unopened and I tried to explain the bad batch thing and they basically didn't belive me. Well I got in touch with Kodak and the first place (technical help line) had no clue what I was talking about but they referred me to the motion picture department. finally someone from kodak knew what I was talking about. She said they were aware of the problem. It was kodak france that had the problem and it was fixed and there was a new batch number and everything. She said that if I had ordered straight from kodak then she would have been able to replace the film that i bought but since i bought it from a store, the store should give me a refund. Well after talking to her for a while she was nice enough to send me 2 new rolls of film from the new batch. they are in my cameras right now and i hope to finish them soon and get them developed so I can see if they really do work.

[Pedro]

Hi Andreas,

I had several expieriences with K40 mechanical problems. I am not saying only "jitter", as there had been wrong much more. Furthermore, I was lucky to get very direct informations from the Bavaria studios in Munich, which are in close relationship with Kodak Germany.


My expieriences:Summer 2000: 1 cardrige out of 15 blocked totally, run only after beating it very heavyly and pulling the first centimeters of film manually. The output footage was extremly jittery anyway. The other cardriges showed an abnormal heavy "breathing".
Spring 2001: Another cardrige blocked totally, same as above. Two others showed extreme jitter, wasting all what had been filmed. (short docu with 4 cardriges in total)
Summer 2001: 15 cardriges showed tolerable breathing, but stronger as usual.
Winter 2001: every second cardrige showed heavy jitter, Kodak replaced 7 exposed rolls of film. Totally shot: 12 rolls. The rest was tolerable, but not good. Interesting: No jitter during double exposure or lap dissolves.

My informations:
Changes at Kodak France in 2000:
(all cardriges are manufactured in France and filled with film only there)
The washer disc inside the cardrige had been supplyed by a new source of inferior quality, caused the first mechanical problem: total blocking of some carts.

Changes at Kodak Rochester in 2000/2001:
(all films are manufactured in Rochester and shipped to France afterwards)
One production line for Kodakchrome had been discontinued - no more K25. All silicon finishing of all movie films had been adjusted in some new and comon way.

Jitter effect:The different silicon finishing is the main reason for jitter. However, there may occure a mixture of the effect from the washer disk and the effect from the silicon finishing. When the washer disk is o.k., there only may be jitter, an without any special noise.

Changes at Kodak France in spring 2002:The cardrige since there is manufactured of another plastic composition, giving it a very smooth surface. A batch of 10 cardriges had been tested in cameras and the result was excellent again. Plus less camera noise.

So the situation is resolved.

Batch numbers and Exp. dates:
Exp. dates up to 2003 contain "old" cardriges for shure.
Exp. dates from 2004 on, MAY contain some rests of old cardriges, but still is the actual exp. date for the new production.
Exp. dates and batch numbers only refer to the film itself and not to the cardrige. So, from outside, the carts cannot be distinguished if they are 2004. But you can distinguish them easyly when touching the bare cardrige, and Kodak is replacing the old ones.


Best regards,

Pedro

[shootist]

Time to ditch these pesky plastic cartridges and get back to Double Super 8???

BTW, there's food for thought at this site.

[Guest]

I haven't been shooting super 8 for very long, but just recently I noticed jitter on a brand new roll of TRI-X. The jitter began towards the end of the cartridge and became increasingly worse.

[S8 Booster]

:arrow:

[handcranked]

I've recently purchased a supr-8 camera and have run only two rolls through. On both occassions the film would lock up constantly. I had to take the cartridge out of the camera and force the jam manually. Both rolls were Kodachrome 40 with Marche, 2003 dates.

[vidwerk]

Since my local Kodak plant/office doesn't offer kodachrome, I bought 15 rolls of Kodak's Ektachrome 7240 color reversal. Has anyone experienced jitter problems with this film type recently?

Simon. :?:

[supa_ate_sixteen]

I haven't seen my footage yet, but indeed a couple of my Ektachrome 125 cartridges (ordered in US) made a terrible blender sound when running through the camera, much like the K40 did previously. I think all stocks were to blame but just more evident in K40 because thats what most people are shooting, right?

[S8 Booster]

:arrow:

[Pedro]

the jitter problem does absolutly not depend on the type of film, only on the cardrige. So all stocks are affected. With VNF there may be registration problems even with good cardriges, as the film is somewhat thinner and requires a very accurate camera adjustment (side pressure in the gate), for avoiding jitter and floating of focus. For this filmstock the additional pressure plate was mainly developed.
Pedro

[supa_ate_sixteen]

Pedro, have you used these pressure plates offered? Do you think they are worth the investment? ( I believe $125 is the going price right now ) By the way, does VNF stand for Vision Negative Film or am I just mental?