Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Ah the joy of self-denial!
As you well know Mike, 'sharpness' is an ancient myth in all film based mediums, and an element in the alter-ego of all super8 shooters...a dirty little secret, an impulse that drives many on their quest for the holy grail of cameras...and even cameras with expensive prime lenses, a habit, an addiction that needs to be fed...
Ignoring the good advice (even their own advice) to buy the cheapest, lesser known cameras they begin their journey.....the camera collection steadily grows. They post pictures of all their experiments on forums, begin discussions like this one, maybe even put together a website discussing the pros and cons of various models. But despite what they say in public, at home, with the lights off and the projector running, all those ebay super8 purchases are feeding nothing but disappointment. And thats when they start to dabble with the dark side.
It starts with 'normal 8'. Doesn't sound that dangerous does it? Soon the collection is expanding in a new direction...things are getting sharper, its all becoming clearer...scouring ebay for all those rare H8 primes. But the quest continues, and soon, we've entered the strange world of Double super8. Our hero might have a pang or two of guilt here, realising that they've now bought a 16mm camera in all but name. And this is where they are suddenly struck by a moment of incredible clarity, a sharply focused zen realisation. The answer lies in the East.
They do not renounce their former words. There is no need now to change their name or appearance. What matters now, is the clarity, the sharpness of it all. Rejecting the false gods of the other formats and the profanity of prime lenses, they begin to follow a simple life. Indeed, a Single life. A simple philosophy, little known outside its native Japan, this is the true creed, the righteous path. And so, the homage begins, to that holiest of places.
The towering moutain that is Fuji.
Hope this helps,
Fogo
As you well know Mike, 'sharpness' is an ancient myth in all film based mediums, and an element in the alter-ego of all super8 shooters...a dirty little secret, an impulse that drives many on their quest for the holy grail of cameras...and even cameras with expensive prime lenses, a habit, an addiction that needs to be fed...
Ignoring the good advice (even their own advice) to buy the cheapest, lesser known cameras they begin their journey.....the camera collection steadily grows. They post pictures of all their experiments on forums, begin discussions like this one, maybe even put together a website discussing the pros and cons of various models. But despite what they say in public, at home, with the lights off and the projector running, all those ebay super8 purchases are feeding nothing but disappointment. And thats when they start to dabble with the dark side.
It starts with 'normal 8'. Doesn't sound that dangerous does it? Soon the collection is expanding in a new direction...things are getting sharper, its all becoming clearer...scouring ebay for all those rare H8 primes. But the quest continues, and soon, we've entered the strange world of Double super8. Our hero might have a pang or two of guilt here, realising that they've now bought a 16mm camera in all but name. And this is where they are suddenly struck by a moment of incredible clarity, a sharply focused zen realisation. The answer lies in the East.
They do not renounce their former words. There is no need now to change their name or appearance. What matters now, is the clarity, the sharpness of it all. Rejecting the false gods of the other formats and the profanity of prime lenses, they begin to follow a simple life. Indeed, a Single life. A simple philosophy, little known outside its native Japan, this is the true creed, the righteous path. And so, the homage begins, to that holiest of places.
The towering moutain that is Fuji.
Hope this helps,
Fogo
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Fetishing 'sharpness' as being the ultimate yardstick for 'performance' of a Super 8 camera completely ignores other important issues such as ergonomics. In terms of picture quality alone, the lens coatings make a massive difference to the ultimate 'look' of reversal film, and this is why IMHO the results from 814/1014XL-S cameras look really good.
The Nizo Pro lens has different coatings from others that ostensibly use the same Macro-Variogon lens (801m), and the difference in terms of colour reproduction and perceived sharpness is pretty apparent.
Nikon R10, 1014XL-S, 7008, Special etc. may be great cameras, but you can't easily sling them in your bag, grab them out with one hand and shoot from the hip in the same way that you can with a low-end Sankyo or one of the Eumig Minis etc.
Mike Nyberg is right - "Just use a camera that meets your needs".
The Nizo Pro lens has different coatings from others that ostensibly use the same Macro-Variogon lens (801m), and the difference in terms of colour reproduction and perceived sharpness is pretty apparent.
Nikon R10, 1014XL-S, 7008, Special etc. may be great cameras, but you can't easily sling them in your bag, grab them out with one hand and shoot from the hip in the same way that you can with a low-end Sankyo or one of the Eumig Minis etc.
Mike Nyberg is right - "Just use a camera that meets your needs".
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
I only have two super 8 cameras now a Canon 1014 XL-S and a Eumig Nautica both are easy to make nice images with. Neither have the sharpest lenses to be found on a super 8 camera.
What I recently discovered was the Bolex H16 Rx far sharper than any S8 camera I've used and I can have 100' processed and printed locally overnight for only slightly more than super 8 (okay nearly twice the price). Projects bigger, brighter and won't damage my original, not to mention the stock choices. I suppose that's a dirtier secret than Single 8.
What I recently discovered was the Bolex H16 Rx far sharper than any S8 camera I've used and I can have 100' processed and printed locally overnight for only slightly more than super 8 (okay nearly twice the price). Projects bigger, brighter and won't damage my original, not to mention the stock choices. I suppose that's a dirtier secret than Single 8.
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Here´s some leicina footage.
you´ll need the DIVX plugin to watch
http://www.8stage.com/play/_divx.php?ur ... -flow.divx
you´ll need the DIVX plugin to watch
http://www.8stage.com/play/_divx.php?ur ... -flow.divx
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Not sure what Fogo was getting at but what went through my mind when I posted was that it is almost impossible to measure "apparent sharpness" since in our medium of film, the BRAIN fills in the gaps between the 24fps (or whatever speed) you run...that much is unmeasurable...a still image from a reel of film is not a proxy for sharpness of movie film...
And yeah, just shoot 16mm - it is the greatest format out there.
I hope I have no words to renounce...I have enjoyed all my cameras over the years and when it comes to selecting a camera to use for any given project or outing, sharpness is not usually on the top of my list...
And usually, if people actually projected their images, they would be incredibly happy with the sharpness of even the most cheap cameras bought on ebay...there's something about transferring to AVI that makes the images less nice...
And yeah, just shoot 16mm - it is the greatest format out there.
I hope I have no words to renounce...I have enjoyed all my cameras over the years and when it comes to selecting a camera to use for any given project or outing, sharpness is not usually on the top of my list...
And usually, if people actually projected their images, they would be incredibly happy with the sharpness of even the most cheap cameras bought on ebay...there's something about transferring to AVI that makes the images less nice...
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
I have owned the Beaulieu 6008S Digital with the 6-80 lens, the Canon 814XLS, and the Leicina Special. I found the 6008S cumbersome to use and it is not for filming on the fly. But with proper care and time you can get very good images with the Beaulieu. The Canon 814 was just as sharp as the Beaulieu but it was very good for filming on the fly. Exposure set on automatic with Tri X all came out perfectly.
The Leicina was sharper than the other two with TriX. It is true that there seems to be a little bit of "shimmer" or sparkle to the image. I used the Cinegon which was amazing and I also used the 6-66mm. That was a great lens too.
If I had to choose quality of the image and portability (with the Cinegon the whole setup fits almost in the palm of your hand) I would choose the Leicina.
For ease of use the camera I would take would be the 814xls. If I wanted to impress with a sexy looking camera..Beaulieu. I sold all of them and still have the Leicina. Great camera and the one I am keeping.
The Leicina was sharper than the other two with TriX. It is true that there seems to be a little bit of "shimmer" or sparkle to the image. I used the Cinegon which was amazing and I also used the 6-66mm. That was a great lens too.
If I had to choose quality of the image and portability (with the Cinegon the whole setup fits almost in the palm of your hand) I would choose the Leicina.
For ease of use the camera I would take would be the 814xls. If I wanted to impress with a sexy looking camera..Beaulieu. I sold all of them and still have the Leicina. Great camera and the one I am keeping.
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Canon 1014XL-S is sharp as Beaulieu 6008 with 6-80 lens? It is really good, but I think that some tests with resolution chart can resolve this dispute.
________
Alexander,
filmmaker from Russia
Alexander,
filmmaker from Russia
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
hi, canon 1014xls is not as sharp as the 6-80, especially wide open, i have both in my toybox, leicina special with 6-66 or the 10mm wins the resolving power war. Different cameras for different jobs, run and gun, go for a 1014xls, time to plan and carry out your shoot beaulieu, leicina pitched between the two, desert island, with just one camera to choose, leicina special will be the one for me.
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Where would you get AA batteries, film, processing, a computer for NLE, DVD's, projector, and screen, and of course, electricity?...desert island, with just one camera to choose, leicina special will be the one for me.
I don't think desert islands and super 8 go together...now, a 35mm Leica and some B&W film, paper and a few chemicals CAN go a long way on a desert island...
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Leica??
A lot of good that will do you...
Sounds like a $5,000 signal mirror.
I would take a Nikkormat or a Pentax Spotmatic.
Good Luck
A lot of good that will do you...
Sounds like a $5,000 signal mirror.
I would take a Nikkormat or a Pentax Spotmatic.
Good Luck
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
:lol: didn't think of that, no batts on a desert island, or no where to my projector in, DURH !!!!, ok you smart lot, i meant to say, if i had to choose one cam, it would the the leicina:)
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
There you go picking cameras that need batteries...and useless sized ones at that...no, I would take either my Retina II with the Ektar f2.0 or the Leica IIIf with the 15mm Heliogon...photography without batteries, you should try it!!Leica??
A lot of good that will do you...
Sounds like a $5,000 signal mirror.
I would take a Nikkormat or a Pentax Spotmatic.
Cheers,
Mike
As for single fave camera for the desert island? Why the Eumig Nautica of course...you silly fools - the tsunami will drown your precious Leicinas...
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
No...
They need batteries for light meters.
The cameras don't need batteries.
Good Luck
They need batteries for light meters.
The cameras don't need batteries.
Good Luck
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Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
However, you also forgot, when the mercenary ship passes by, I will be able to secure passage with my Leica...since, like Rolex, Leica is as good as gold. But, you will be left behind with your Pentax and Nikkormat (what is that, a Nikon copy they may ask?)
Happy trails...
OR
Happy trails...
OR
My website - check it out...
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
http://super8man.filmshooting.com/
Re: Canon 814/1014XLS vs Beaulieu and Leicina Special comparison
Silly S8Man
You remember the archives??
I wear Omega.
Good Luck
PS-A real Merc doesn't want the Leica he wants the stash of M14s since they are the Omega of small arms.
You remember the archives??
I wear Omega.
Good Luck
PS-A real Merc doesn't want the Leica he wants the stash of M14s since they are the Omega of small arms.
Last edited by Nigel on Wed May 28, 2008 7:07 am, edited 2 times in total.