Kid Nation - Join me in protest...

[MovieStuff]

Different kind of pressure?!? For the TV executives you mean?

No. The kids, of course.

They have to keep the show going of course. Money is at stake. That's clear. Am not sure how this relates to the kids. Maybe if we could read the contracts they signed.

But the kids don't and can't sign contracts. That's the point.

Still sounds like you object to the network organizing this project.

I object to the network trying to make a buck off of kids that are, no doubt, too eager to be on television without anyone considering how cruel kids can be to each other. My 8 year old daughter has a hard enough time trying to understand playground social dynamics without her humiliation being amplified by having her tears broadcast into millions of homes. Make no mistake, this show is for the benefit of executive adults, purposely, and exploited kids, incidentally. These kids will not be worse off if this show did not air but the parents and executives will. You can't say that about a true documentary.

Rather I questioned the parents of the children. You know that they didn't just walk the street nabbing kids. Their parents were aware of everything and signed what I am sure was a very lengthy release.

Not only that...But who really buys the concept that reality tv is real??

Well, exactly. That's the whole problem with this show. This is not a documentary about kids that are doing something that they would be doing anyway, even if there were no cameras present. This is an entertainment show that is, essentially, asking kids to be improvisational actors for 17 hours a day but treating it as a documentary to get around child labor laws. No matter whether the kids benefit or not from the experience, the producers and parents will benefit financially, but only if the kids stay in the show. That's unfair pressure.

Roger

[Dr_Strangelove]

Work will teach a child more about him/herself than sitting in a classroom ever will. This is proven.

By whom may I ask? And dont you think the an education and work vary a tiny bit in what we learn? Dont compare apples with pears.


/Jan

[yolia]

The kids didn't sign contracts, but the video promo clearly states that a kid can leave the project any time. No kid is forced to stay and no kid will be forced out. I'd say that alleviates a lot of pressure, unless the parents are compelling their kids to stay in the show. In the end, fingers should be pointed at the parents--not CBS.

[yolia]

Work will teach a child more about him/herself than sitting in a classroom ever will. This is proven.

By whom may I ask? And dont you think the an education and work vary a tiny bit in what we learn? Dont compare apples with pears.


/Jan

Man, where to begin. Proven by history, by the lives of most people who have had to endure 12-13 years of incarceration called schooling. By my own life. Compare your own experience with school and work. Which taught you more about yourself? Most school work in kindergarten through 12 grade is mundane, irrelevant, boring. Ask any student. Moreover, the majority of kids who graduate from high school STILL don't know what they want to do with their lives. I know, I teach high school. I'd say schools teach confusion, doubt, dependency, insecurity, obedience, immaturity, self-alienation, contempt, humiliation--all the things necessary for a complacent, non-voting, easily controlled population. Did you know that in ancient Greece only slaves went to school? Most kids think school is a part-time prison. They are right.

[MovieStuff]

The kids didn't sign contracts, but the video promo clearly states that a kid can leave the project any time.

That sounds like a legal defense, frankly. Contracts do not govern how children process information. How do you think most kids get into drugs or alcohol or gang activity? You think that a kid takes a drink of beer for the first time and really likes the taste enough to drink a 6 pack? You think a kid suddenly, for no reason, gets a notion to throw a brick through a store window for a smash and grab of some TVs? Peer pressure is a very, very powerful incentive to do things that are toxic to your well being. Most adults have a hard enough time sortting out such decisions. While it is correct to question any parent that would let their kid do this show, the concept of the show is problematic, in my opinion. Again, this is not a documentary about self-achievement but, rather, a game show about kids essentially being put into a maze and being told to find their way out while the cameras roll, all for the entertainment of the masses.

Seriously, do you have kids?

Roger

[MovieStuff]

Compare your own experience with school and work. Which taught you more about yourself? Most school work in kindergarten through 12 grade is mundane, irrelevant, boring. Ask any student. Moreover, the majority of kids who graduate from high school STILL don't know what they want to do with their lives. I know, I teach high school. I'd say schools teach confusion, doubt, dependency, insecurity, obedience, immaturity, self-alienation, contempt, humiliation--all the things necessary for a complacent, non-voting, easily controlled population.

I actually agree but this show is not the solution for the problem you describe. If anything, this show teaches a kid that you can get a quick $20,000 for your parents if you just suck it up and do things that you don't like and withstand the humiliation of failure on national television. There are better ways to teach self-fullfillment and self-determination than a circus like this. Pride should come from accomplishment of the individual and not from making your fellow contestant lose or look foolish.

Roger

[yolia]

Compare your own experience with school and work. Which taught you more about yourself? Most school work in kindergarten through 12 grade is mundane, irrelevant, boring. Ask any student. Moreover, the majority of kids who graduate from high school STILL don't know what they want to do with their lives. I know, I teach high school. I'd say schools teach confusion, doubt, dependency, insecurity, obedience, immaturity, self-alienation, contempt, humiliation--all the things necessary for a complacent, non-voting, easily controlled population.

I actually agree but this show is not the solution for the problem you describe. If anything, this show teaches a kid that you can get a quick $20,000 for your parents if you just suck it up and do things that you don't like and withstand the humiliation of failure on national television. There are better ways to teach self-fullfillment and self-determination than a circus like this. Pride should come from accomplishment of the individual and not from making your fellow contestant lose or look foolish.

Roger

I have three kids. My oldest is 8. Plus I've been teaching nearly nine years. I know all about humiliation and peer pressure. Schools are breeding grounds for toxic behavior. It is where they learn all the awful habits that most parents hope to protect them from. How ironic and sad. Would I allow my kids to be in this CBS show? Hell no. I never said this show was a solution for the problems I outlined. The parents of those kids probably don't share my point of view. Fine. Let's see if they make the most of it and learn something. The show's premise is definitely interesting to me. And maybe those kids will learn something valuable at the end of it all--other than how to win $20,000. And if how to win $20,000 is all they learn--that may be an education in itself in this capitalist society. Is the show a circus? Probably. Most Likely. But I will wait for its premiere and watch before passing final judgment.

[MovieStuff]

I have three kids. My oldest is 8. Plus I've been teaching nearly nine years. I know all about humiliation and peer pressure.

Then you know what I am referring to. I can't see how the additional pressure of national exposure will make that situation any better. But, then again, perhaps the kids will act more civil since they know someone is watching.

The show's premise is definitely interesting to me. And maybe those kids will learn something valuable at the end of it all--other than how to win $20,000.

I think it is the money aspect that bothers me the most. If this were an "Outward Bound" series or something where each kid endures the same exact challenges and the reward is unique to what the kid learns about himself without adults making money on the gig, then I think it would pass the smell test better. The problem is that any interviews with the kids or parents will be choked, just like when the media interviews soldiers in Iraq. Very controlled. They always sound like the post game interview from the losing Superbowl team, "You know, I'm just glad to be here and to be able to give it 100%..." :roll:

Roger

[super8man]

I always remember some early (precursors to reality tv??) documentaries on Outward Bound and also liked seeing the passage the rough kids to realizing their are things worth living for that don't include drugs and all. It was great. I guess that's the real crux of the matter, that we don't seem to want to help those truly in need, instead, we want to entertain ourselves with child actors that need no help whatsoever (I would love to see the dossier on each parent of this "roughing it" show). 10 to 1 they are ALL from connected families to CBS - just like the survivor chick who's now on the view - she was no random girl chosen from the wilds - she had all sorts of connections, etc. Each child was chosen for a reason. Its all fake.

[audadvnc]

From "Nanook of the north" to "Kid Nation" there has always been staging.

Interesting comparison. Nanook was a real eskimo. He died of starvation while his film was still travelling the first run movie circuit.

[mattias]

Work will teach a child more about him/herself than sitting in a classroom ever will. This is proven.

By whom may I ask?

so you actually learned something about yourself in school? my friends who started working instead of going to high school already owned homes and had families at 20, which is so ridiculously more mature than i was at the same age that for somebody to ask for proof is just hilarious. now i know more about filmmaking and computer science than they do, but people are different and they definitely wouldn't have become computer scientists anyway. not so long ago only those who were interested got an education, but the need of western society to keep kids confined longer changed the school systems everywhere. don't make the mistake to think there's any other reason whatsoever. anybody reasonably intelligent, which includes my friends who were grownups at 20 as well as 90% of the world's population, can learn the entire curriculum of any nation's primary school in a couple of years. if you don't agree i'm sorry to say you're probably one of the sad 10% who are retarded. ;-)

(don't forget that kids have to play too. it's sad that we have to wait until college to start exploring ourselves and others through those means. i was lucky to grow up with semi-hippie parents in a forest, but for most kids both school and home are way to restricted, even work is better in that respect)

/matt

[MovieStuff]

anybody reasonably intelligent, which includes my friends who were grownups at 20 as well as 90% of the world's population, can learn the entire curriculum of any nation's primary school in a couple of years.

Boy, isn't that the truth? My nephew was being taught stuff in 6th grade that I was taught in high school. Also, if you showed up in my math class with a calculator, you got an F. If my nephew showed without a calculator, he got an F. Go figure.

Also, I agree that education is relative to what you want out of life. I am a big proponent of vocational schools. Not everyone needs to go to college and, for many, doing so only saddles them with a huge debt load that they'll either default on or take years to pay back. I got an associate degree in art from a 2 year commercial art school. While all my employers wanted to see my portfolio, none of them asked if I had a degree of any kind.

But, whether vocational or traditional education, learning isn't the hard part. It's wanting to learn that is the big problem.

Roger

[nglester]

:? on the adv., kids seems having fun and enjoying it...

[Nigel]

Nanook was an Eskimo.

These are real kids.

Nanook staged his actions for a camera...I bet these kids did the same.

Good Luck

[Dr_Strangelove]

Work will teach a child more about him/herself than sitting in a classroom ever will. This is proven.

By whom may I ask?

so you actually learned something about yourself in school? my friends who started working instead of going to high school already owned homes and had families at 20, which is so ridiculously more mature than i was at the same age that for somebody to ask for proof is just hilarious. now i know more about filmmaking and computer science than they do, but people are different and they definitely wouldn't have become computer scientists anyway. not so long ago only those who were interested got an education, but the need of western society to keep kids confined longer changed the school systems everywhere. don't make the mistake to think there's any other reason whatsoever. anybody reasonably intelligent, which includes my friends who were grownups at 20 as well as 90% of the world's population, can learn the entire curriculum of any nation's primary school in a couple of years. if you don't agree i'm sorry to say you're probably one of the sad 10% who are retarded. ;-)

(don't forget that kids have to play too. it's sad that we have to wait until college to start exploring ourselves and others through those means. i was lucky to grow up with semi-hippie parents in a forest, but for most kids both school and home are way to restricted, even work is better in that respect)

/matt

Boy is this embarasing, I missread the quote missed the ''learn more about yourself''. Of course I agree with you that one learns more about themselves if youre working than the other way around. Guess this serves me right for reading a bit too quickly.