Shooting a film with a mix of DV and 16fps super 8..

PHILIE-T · Post by **PHILIE-T** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:40 am

What potential problems do you reckon I will run in to?

Post by **tlatosmd** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:39 am

16fps? That's a pretty odd framerate for S8 indeed. Are you sure it ain't 18fps, or that it's really S8 you're shooting, instead of R8?

Anyway, to compensate for the difference in shutter speed of 16/18fps to 50 or 60 fields per second, I'd recommend deinterlacing by blending your DV footage's available fields together. Premiere Pro and After Effects can't do that (and IMHO neither can Final Cut), but VirtualDub and Discreet Combustion can.

PHILIE-T · Post by **PHILIE-T** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:05 pm

sorry i ment 18fps...any difference?

Post by **jpolzfuss** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:42 pm

Will the final result be on film or on video?
And at what FPS is the final result to be shown?

PHILIE-T · Post by **PHILIE-T** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:53 pm

well the final result is a dvd....??

Post by **jpolzfuss** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:41 pm

PHILIE-T wrote:well the final result is a dvd....??

25 fps? 29,97 fps? 23,976 fps?

PHILIE-T · Post by **PHILIE-T** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:59 pm

its english pal for DVD so is that 25fps? so what does that mean of my 18fps super 8 footage transfered to dv??

Post by **jpolzfuss** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:07 pm

To eleminate flicker, the 18fps-Super8-film is either slowed down to 16 2/3 or sped up to 25 fps during transfer - in most cases. When the transfer-service is using a modern device (e.g. mwa nova's flashscan, ...) or a special projector with 6 to 8 blades, the film can be transfered to video without changing the speed.

The difference between 16 2/3 and 18 fps is so small that you normally wouldn't notice it.
When the transfer is done at 25fps, you'll have to use virtualdub or another program to convert the transfered film back to its normal speed.
When the film is already transfered at the correct speed, you can merge the videos without any problems.

The only problem could be the sound - that is if you recorded it sync'ed to your super8-film: The transfer at 25fps (or a transfer directly into a MOV/MPEG/AVI-file) is the only transfer where a single super8-frame results in a single video-frame.

Post by **thebigidea** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:50 pm

Shoot as much Super-8 as you can. I did the same a few years ago and would've given anything to have done the whole thing on film... the current feature i'm futzing with is a mix of 16/super-8 - the new tri-x intercuts nicely, a nice texture...

Post by **pulsingcinema** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:47 am

I'm actually working on finishing such a project right now which was originally to be shot entirely in K40 but ended up with extensive sequences shot in minidv simply because I felt I could do more in night exteriors and some darker interiors with video. I posted an early trailer for it here some time ago (which is much longer and still on the main website) but here's a newer and far more cryptic one:

http://www.pulsingcinema.com/JRHFilms/fbnnewtrailer.mov

Anyway, shooting on different formate like this and getting them to look similar is kind of a big experiment for me but I think the relatively good telecine which Cinepost gave the super-8 footage helped immensely.

EDIT - Here's the first trailer, far more shots of video and super-8 intermingling - http://www.pulsingcinema.com/JRHFilms/fbnteaser2.mov

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:25 pm

you can de-interlace footage in AE.

Post by **tlatosmd** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:48 pm

jusetan wrote:you can de-interlace footage in AE.

Not really. AE only smudges the whole picture into a blurry mess. We ruined our broadcasting signal like that for months until someone found out our template's author had originally used AE's 'de-interlacing' effect. For actual de-interlacing, you need Adobe Premiere (Pro), Final Cut, VirtualDub, or Discreet Combustion, for example.

Post by **mattias** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:33 pm

of course you can deinterlace in after effects. period. this is too silly to discuss. can you also use after effects the wrong way? of course, but that's another story. ;-)

/matt

Post by **CHAS** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:09 pm

pulsingcinema wrote:I'm actually working on finishing such a project right now which was originally to be shot entirely in K40 but ended up with extensive sequences shot in minidv simply because I felt I could do more in night exteriors and some darker interiors with video. I posted an early trailer for it here some time ago (which is much longer and still on the main website) but here's a newer and far more cryptic one:

http://www.pulsingcinema.com/JRHFilms/fbnnewtrailer.mov

Anyway, shooting on different formate like this and getting them to look similar is kind of a big experiment for me but I think the relatively good telecine which Cinepost gave the super-8 footage helped immensely.

EDIT - Here's the first trailer, far more shots of video and super-8 intermingling - http://www.pulsingcinema.com/JRHFilms/fbnteaser2.mov

Hey John -- this looks like a good film - I got a weird 70s vibe from it ... like "I Drink Your Blood" or "Last House on the Left." Let us know when it's available. Great music...

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:18 am

you wanna talk silly, look at your icon, TWO MATTIAS'!

I'm surprised that you have problems with AE's deinterlace.... strange.

Filmshooting

Shooting a film with a mix of DV and 16fps super 8..

Shooting a film with a mix of DV and 16fps super 8..

hmm