Need advice on Super 8

[dedekind]

Hi!

Long story short: my wife is an independent filmmaker. She always used a DSLR to film. Her birthday is next week and she told me that she wants a Super 8 camera. I believe most of the things she will be doing with it will be documentary but I don't know for sure, and the deal was that I would do the research and buy the camera (similar thing happened for my birthday for musical equipment for me). In any case, I wanted to get a couple of suggestions from you if you don't mind.

The budget that I have to spend is $500 top. If I can spend less than that (say around $350) much better, but I can get to $500 if it's really worth it. Also, as I said, she is independent and from what I can deduce, she will be using the Super 8 from time to time, not as the main camera (but I think she does have a project that only involves the Super 8). Also it needs to have as many manual options as possible (manual aperture, etc.).

Looking at ebay I've found a lot of very cheap cameras that I know are probably not working or they are too basic. But I came across the following two:

1) Beaulieu 5008 S, at $425
2) Canon 814XL S, at $320 (this is a bid, so not sure if this will be final price).

What are the main differences between them? I know that you can interchange lenses on the Beaulieus, but I don't know how easy that is and whether that feature alone is really worth it. I also know the Canon is pretty good, but I've read some people saying that the Beaulieu is a bit more pro (the Canon being made for the home movie maker in that time). Are my appreciations correct?

Finally, both have sound capabilities, but AFAIK, this is useless now because film with sound has been discontinued. Are there similar options without sound? Would there be an advantage of getting one without sound? For instance, is there such a thing as a Beaulieu 5008 without sound, or an 814XL without sound?

I've heard bad things about the Beaulieu 4008, what do you guys have to say?

Thanks a lot for your comments!

[kuparikettu]

Unless that Beaulieu has been serviced I think that Canon is a good choice. Much more reliable. It's also very good camera with very sharp lens -- according to some tests it's in the top 5 sharpest of super-8 cameras with built-in lenses.

But should you want something cheaper and serviced: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=60094

As for the C-mount: most people using Beaulieus never use this feature. Unless one wants to have very long focal lengths or to achieve higher sharpness with other lenses I think it isn't worth it.

[Will2]

If this is her first Super 8 camera I'd go less expensive and more reliable for sure. The Canon is a great option. She needs to go through the whole process of shooting, processing, transferring/coloring and editing to see if it is something for her. I'd bet she'll fall in love with it and soon you'll be looking at 16mm cameras; but it would be good to start with the Canon.

[kontrabass888]

I have canon 814 and 814XL. I like them, but they are very big cameras.(1014 is even longer than 814)
Beaulieu 4008 series silent cameras have interchargable lens, and much smaller than the canon sound camera.
A Beaulieu 4008 zm II or zm IV with Angenieux lens will cost about 150$ , and maybe it needs new battery and a good overhul.

[Joel Pierre]

I’ve heard bad things about the Beaulieu 4008, what do you guys have to say? Thanks a lot for your comments!

The 2008/4008 Beaulieu cameras require new batteries (the original ones are useless), which are very expensive (outrageously expensive).

Internal gelatins filters of Beaulieu 4008/2008 camera must to be changed or removed (they are dirty and distorted).

If you do not need to change lenses, I'd recommend a Leicina Super (Leitz lens, robust and reliable manufacturing, picture quality, simple, et compact).



http://www.super8data.com/database/came ... er_rt1.htm

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/LEICINA-SUPER-8m ... 3cd4b36ad3

[nikonr10]

Hi!

Long story short: my wife is an independent filmmaker. She always used a DSLR to film. Her birthday is next week and she told me that she wants a Super 8 camera. I believe most of the things she will be doing with it will be documentary but I don't know for sure, and the deal was that I would do the research and buy the camera (similar thing happened for my birthday for musical equipment for me). In any case, I wanted to get a couple of suggestions from you if you don't mind.

The budget that I have to spend is $500 top. If I can spend less than that (say around $350) much better, but I can get to $500 if it's really worth it. Also, as I said, she is independent and from what I can deduce, she will be using the Super 8 from time to time, not as the main camera (but I think she does have a project that only involves the Super 8). Also it needs to have as many manual options as possible (manual aperture, etc.).

Looking at ebay I've found a lot of very cheap cameras that I know are probably not working or they are too basic. But I came across the following two:

1) Beaulieu 5008 S, at $425
2) Canon 814XL S, at $320 (this is a bid, so not sure if this will be final price).

What are the main differences between them? I know that you can interchange lenses on the Beaulieus, but I don't know how easy that is and whether that feature alone is really worth it. I also know the Canon is pretty good, but I've read some people saying that the Beaulieu is a bit more pro (the Canon being made for the home movie maker in that time). Are my appreciations correct?

Finally, both have sound capabilities, but AFAIK, this is useless now because film with sound has been discontinued. Are there similar options without sound? Would there be an advantage of getting one without sound? For instance, is there such a thing as a Beaulieu 5008 without sound, or an 814XL without sound?

I've heard bad things about the Beaulieu 4008, what do you guys have to say?

Thanks a lot for your comments!

Hello just some input ,
first of all a DSLR is not film ? with film there is alot to learn ! and with that come's alot of mistakes on the way which is not cheap ,
I would start with a camera which is easy to use and fun to play around with ! like the canon 310 xl
the Beauleiu 4008 is a great camera in the right hands ! yes these camera are now geting old ie 30 year,s or more / which means need to have some TLC ,
lub new battery , then learning to use all take's time , not bad when you think that super film is over 48 year old and you can still get film !

that why film making is a craft which can all so become a art form with the right hands and eye so much to learn and still learning , and i still make mistakes on the way and it's eat's them bucks ,

[Tscan]

The Canon 814XLS is a great choice. I have used one for 9 years. I would spend up to $500 on one that is in like new condition and guaranteed to work, and for the money guarantees a refund if it doesn't. Although i have bought most of my cameras on Ebay and most of them worked fine, not all of them did. There's always a risk with Ebay, so get some kind of guarantee if your spending more than $200. I bought my current 814XLS in 2005, still sealed in the box for $499.

[dedekind]

Thanks a lot for the input guys.

I'm leaning more and more towards a Canon. I'm also seeing some nice 1014 AutoZoom Electronic cameras for reasonable prices (around $300). I love how they look, much more than the XL-S. I asked my wife about low light situations and she doesn't care so much about it. Neither does she care about the camera being quiet or not. Would you rather have a 814 XL-S or a 1014E? What about the 814E? She digged the idea of 54fps on the 1014E vs the 814E.

I'm really having a hard time with ebay though. Just looking at the buy it now prices, there are some pretty big differences, even between items that are supposedly tested with film in working condition. For example, I see a 1014E that looks in extremely good condition and tested with film for almost $400 shipped, and another one for $250 shipped, also saying that it's in working condition. At the same time, I'm seeing 814Es that go for $150 or $300 or even more.

[MIKI-814]

Long story short: my wife is an independent filmmaker. She always used a DSLR to film.

DSLR? You mean she's an independent videomaker

My advice is to go for the 814 XL-S AND avoid the Beaulieus. Repairing businesses love Beaulieus 8)

[dedekind]

Thanks again everyone! I finally went for a 1014E that seems to be in mint condition and tested with film. I love how it looks by the way

[MIKI-814]

Thanks again everyone! I finally went for a 1014E that seems to be in mint condition and tested with film. I love how it looks by the way

Well done. Over the XLS series, the Electronic have the advantage that you can reduce the shutter angle (150º 75º 37,5º) to control depth of field or even use it instead a ND filter. In the XLS series you can only set it to 150º or 220º in the XL mode.

The main problem with "Electronic" Canons is that probably you'll need to have the manual EE knob repaired, if you can't make the needle move when you turn it. A simply repairing anyway.

[DTNethery]

If you do not need to change lenses, I'd recommend a Leicina Super (Leitz lens, robust and reliable manufacturing, picture quality, simple, et compact).



http://www.super8data.com/database/came ... er_rt1.htm

Joel Pierre, do you know if the Leicina Super RT1 shares the same film gate design as the fabled Leicina Special ? (the film gate on the Leicina Special supposedly being of such a design that optimizes the steadiness of the film transport, as much as can be done without true pin register and pressure plate ) .

Reading the manual that I found here:

http://www.mondofoto.com/manuals/leicinasuperrt1/

it seems that the Leicina Super RT1 does not have full manual exposure control , but does have an "EE lock" function (which can be temporarily pressed down to hold the f/stop or can be truly locked in place ) and has a +1 stop and -1 stop adjustment dial . (which also works in 1/2 stops) . I would prefer full manual exposure control, but I could live with the limits of the EE lock and the +1 , -1 compensation if the film gate design is the same as the Leicina Special.


.

[aj]

Joel Pierre, do you know if the Leicina Super RT1 shares the same film gate design as the fabled Leicina Special ? (the film gate on the Leicina Special supposedly being of such a design that optimizes the steadiness of the film transport, as much as can be done without true pin register and pressure plate ) .

There is nothing special to the design of Leicina Special. It is not anything like the Nikon Super Zoom, R8/R10 or Minolta D10.
It is just a flat plane with guiding risers to interlock with the cartridge plate. The aperture is just plain cut out.
Supposedly it is made of some special material which has very low friction.

[Nicholas Kovats]

DTNethery,

You cannot manually set the aperture/iris of the Leicina RT-1's fixed zoom. The iris has been removed from the lens itself and is recessed internally in the camera body under electronic control of the auto-exposure mechanism. This cannot be disabled. But you are to able to lock it. This is the technique I utilized, i.e.

1. Take an external light reading.
2. Point the RT-1 at a light source.
3. Observe the internal aperture dial in the viewfinder.
4. Literally "swing" the camera across the light source to force the aperture scale to move to the desired f-stop.
5. Lock it.

It's quite brutal and perhaps reflective of a certain era when Leitz Engineers insisted on complete control of your f-stop needs. Achtung!

Then again this technique could potentially provide endless hilarity on set as the hardcore Leitz RT-1 Cinematographer swings his camera frantically back and forth "hunting" for his optimal f-stop.

If you do not need to change lenses, I'd recommend a Leicina Super (Leitz lens, robust and reliable manufacturing, picture quality, simple, et compact).



http://www.super8data.com/database/came ... er_rt1.htm

Joel Pierre, do you know if the Leicina Super RT1 shares the same film gate design as the fabled Leicina Special ? (the film gate on the Leicina Special supposedly being of such a design that optimizes the steadiness of the film transport, as much as can be done without true pin register and pressure plate ) .

Reading the manual that I found here:

http://www.mondofoto.com/manuals/leicinasuperrt1/

it seems that the Leicina Super RT1 does not have full manual exposure control , but does have an "EE lock" function (which can be temporarily pressed down to hold the f/stop or can be truly locked in place ) and has a +1 stop and -1 stop adjustment dial . (which also works in 1/2 stops) . I would prefer full manual exposure control, but I could live with the limits of the EE lock and the +1 , -1 compensation if the film gate design is the same as the Leicina Special.


.

[Will2]

I'm leaning more and more towards a Canon. I'm also seeing some nice 1014 AutoZoom Electronic cameras for reasonable prices (around $300). I love how they look, much more than the XL-S. I asked my wife about low light situations and she doesn't care so much about it. Neither does she care about the camera being quiet or not. Would you rather have a 814 XL-S or a 1014E? What about the 814E? She digged the idea of 54fps on the 1014E vs the 814E.

I have two 814 Autozooms (the previous model to the 814E) and I love them. Lens is excellent. Only downside is that it's REALLY heavy and the fastest it shoots is 24fps which used to be slow motion but for me is standard speed now (I tell the telecine house that I shot at 24fps instead of 18).

They make excellent self defense weapons by the way.