Bolex 'B' & 'P' Regular 8 cameras - no loops?

[mr_x]

Hi,

I have several 'P' and a B8L Regular 8 Bolex camera. None of these models have film loops, is this potentially going to lead to less smooth film transmission than for example the Bolex H range of cameras, which had film loop forming brackets built into the film chamber?

Best thanks.

Damn cold,

Ric

[MIKI-814]

Your Bolex 8 mm cameras are very well designed and proved for 50 years, so don't worry

[mr_x]

Your Bolex 8 mm cameras are very well designed and proved for 50 years, so don't worry

Thanks Miki,

No worries

Am I likely to get a less smooth film transmission on the P series which have no loop mechanism, than the H series which does please?

The P series were a budget issue which probably explains the absence of film loops in these fine cameras.

Many thanks,

Ric

[marc]

I don't know about the P series but the pocket sized cameras like the C8 do have a loop former but a simplified version because it only has a 25 ft capacity. the H series needed something more sophisticated because it could accomadate 100 ft loads. All bolex cameras give excellent registration because of the high standard of engineering put into them. Of course the H series is the best because of it's particular design.

[mr_x]

Thanks Marc,

I can confirm that the P1 has no loop former, you simply thread it reel-to-reel by way of the pressure plate. This means there is no slack to cushion the film as it is pulled past the film gate, if the mechanism tugs the film, that's what you get on the film, a tugged frame.

This is a B8 but it has a virtually identical interior to the P1. Check out the somewhat irritating video at 2:52 for a close up of the film path, you will see that there is no loop former here.

http://youtu.be/KNI4vs2LoCk

Am I the last person in the world to use a P1, it's starting to feel a bit rarified out here?

Thanks again,

Ric

[marc]

If you look inside the film compartment you will see that little piece of hardware underneath the white arrow showing the film path from the top spool. That is your loop former. But as I said, it is a very simplified version. Unless there is a malfuntion with you camera or lubrication issues, this simple mechanism works quite well on this camera. If you ever have the chance to take apart some of the "innards" you will see based on the shape of the loop former piece that it is designed to provide slack every time a frame of film is pulled down. It is really quite ingenious -which is what you would expect of Bolex! When the claw pulls down the film, the film pushes the loop former at it's access. The activation of the movement is based on a protrusion on the loop former which the film rubbs against. This causes the loop former arm to rotate on it's access ( it is spring loaded to swing back into place). When it rotates on it's access, the pully bar on the loop former pushes the film up to provide slack each time the film is pulled down.

[Tommy]

I haven't used my P1 since the 80's but virtually all the footage from then is rock steady.

[BAC]

The only loop problem I have had with one of my Bolex pocket cameras is when the take-up reel pulls too hard on the film and drags it through the gate. The take-up spool has a slip clutch that is designed to prevent this but when the camera gets old this can have more friction than it should. Other than that they are great little cameras that seem like they will last forever if you take care of them.

[mr_x]

The only loop problem I have had with one of my Bolex pocket cameras is when the take-up reel pulls too hard on the film and drags it through the gate. The take-up spool has a slip clutch that is designed to prevent this but when the camera gets old this can have more friction than it should. Other than that they are great little cameras that seem like they will last forever if you take care of them.

Thanks,

That must be what I'm getting with the P1. I will continue to use this camera - it has a superb lens - but my only real recourse is to look for an H8. Having done that I may turn back to the P1 to see if I can resolve the film-tugging problem. I don't mind a bit of lateral movement in film transmission but the P1 is overtly shaky, although this effect can enhance appearance if seeking that 'old time' effect!

Ric

[71er]

The take up reel should not be able to effect your image, no matter how hard it pulls. For this reason there is a rubber cylinder where the film has to turn from the gate to the take up reel, which is an angle of around 310°, depending on how much film is on the reel already.
If the rubber has gone hard and the film can slip over it, then it is a different matter and you'll have to find a way to replace the old rubber.

[bolextech]

Am I likely to get a less smooth film transmission on the P series which have no loop mechanism, than the H series which does please?

The P series were a budget issue which probably explains the absence of film loops in these fine cameras.

Many thanks,

Ric

You're perfectly right in your assumption.
Cameras without sprocket drive are more susceptible to snatch from the take-up reel causing image jitter.
It's a design compromise in pocket 8mm cameras to save space and make the camera body smaller.
It's the same thing with sprocketless projectors, some jitter is always detectable in the projected image.
For maximum image steadiness, get a H8. You won't regret it.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis

[marc]

I have always had very steady images with my C8.

[bolextech]

I have always had very steady images with my C8.

Well good for you!

Jean-Louis

[BAC]

The Nizo Heliomatic is another 8mm camera that uses a sprocket drive. It's a little smaller and lighter than the H8 if you want something more portable.

[mr_x]

Many thanks. I am inordinately fond of that P1, especially since it is the first model in the P range, I have had a lot of fun with it & the fact that it is still running 50 years after it came out of the factory should shame just about everything which has been produced since about 1980. None of my digital edit softwares have made it beyond the 3 year mark for example, it's just a joke.

Yes, I accept that some of the P, B and C Bolex cameras will be smoother than others, if you are lucky you might pick up one which is ultra steady, depending on the mechanism. Possibly a thorough overhaul of mine - grouting out all the old dry grease and relubing the interior, might improve its performance. But then again it might not. I have learnt the hard way what loops are all about - so I'm looking for a Regular 8 camera which has them

Many thanks again,

Ric