Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by marc » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:14 am

All of our energy needs to go toward keeping film manufacturing going. In light of that, I think a new camera is a little too ambitious and unrealistic.
WHY DO YOU HAVE TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS GOING THROUGH TSA SECURITY IN THE AIRPORT BUT ANYONE CAN CROSS THE BOARDER BETWEEN THE U.S. AND MEXICO WITH NO CHALLENGES WHATSOEVER? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by carllooper » Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:01 am

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by JeremyC » Fri Aug 09, 2013 11:09 am

I think the value in the idea of a new 8 mm camera is that such a thing would attract new people to the format who are used to plug-and-play i.e. people who want to be able to just go out and get a camera and don't want to go through what the contributors of this forum go through i.e. spend time and effort sourcing 30 to 40 year old cameras and hoping that they work. People on this forum are happy to put in the extra effort but if you have a digital boy or a digital girl attracted to the idea of film but only used to going and getting any sort of digital device then they are unlikely to haunt Ebay or these forums to pick up a possibly' working camera. The contributions to this thread of ideas are all good as they are the sort of things digital boys and girls will want when they walk into a store to instantly pick up a camera.

I think Pro 8's (?) marketing of cheap remade cameras is a good idea wrt to the digarati, I'm not sure if it has worked so far. The other thing that should go hand in hand with a hypothetical new camera is a low cost, plug-and-play scanner and it looks like that is starting to emerge from a number of directions. Perhaps low cost scanners will be the thing that pushes 8 and 16 mm along because the result of that will be more film popping up in all sorts of areas and for all sorts of reasons so becoming more visible leading to being noticed more and so attracting new people but people who are very much plug-and-play.

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by doug » Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:39 pm

[quote="JeremyC"]I think the value in the idea of a new 8 mm camera is that such a thing would attract new people to the format who are used to plug-and-play i.e. people who want to be able to just go out and get a camera and don't want to go through what the contributors of this forum go through i.e. spend time and effort sourcing 30 to 40 year old cameras and hoping that they work.

I agree. Many super-8 cameras these days I find have problems. Not surprising considering their age. And it's often not economic to fix them because they have quite low value anyway. Happily there are still plenty around that work but that won't always be the case. I reckon it is probably time to make a new camera, as long as the cost is reasonable. Could costs be saved by not having a lens ? So just the body with c-mount or something.
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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by nikonr10 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:04 am

[quote="JeremyC"]I think the value in the idea of a new 8 mm camera is that such a thing would attract new people to the format who are used to plug-and-play i.e. people who want to be able to just go out and get a camera and don't want to go through what the contributors of this forum go through i.e. spend time and effort sourcing 30 to 40 year old cameras and hoping that they work. People on this forum are happy to put in the extra effort but if you have a digital boy or a digital girl attracted to the idea of film but only used to going and getting any sort of digital device then they are unlikely to haunt Ebay or these forums to pick up a possibly' working camera. The contributions to this thread of ideas are all good as they are the sort of things digital boys and girls will want when they walk into a store to instantly pick up a camera.

I think Pro 8's (?) marketing of cheap remade cameras is a good idea wrt to the digarati, I'm not sure if it has worked so far. The other thing that should go hand in hand with a hypothetical new camera is a low cost, plug-and-play scanner and it looks like that is starting to emerge from a number of directions. Perhaps low cost scanners will be the thing that pushes 8 and 16 mm along because the result of that will be more film popping up in all sorts of areas and for all sorts of reasons so becoming more visible leading to being noticed more and so attracting new people but people who are very much plug-and-play.[/quote

New camera or old 'digital girls /boy s" , film is not plug and play like video , I found out along time ago it's hard work ! and I made alot of mistakes's on the way ?
From it you learn ? and I still am , so many thing can happen or go wrong , aIn't no easy way to learn the art of film making ,
But you are right about geting old camera fixed /and geting hold of parts , As the guy/s that can fix then are geting old , or part's now hard to find ,

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by DTNethery » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:50 pm

While we are waiting for Lasse to get back from vacation and presumably post some images or film clips from his prototype Super 8 camera , I wanted to point out this thread from a few years ago that I found while searching for something else last night :

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21633

This was from a user who had his Bolex 160 Macrozoom serviced by Bolex . From the description it seems that Bolex replaced many parts in addition to standard clean & lube, so he more or less received a "new" Super-8 camera for his investment of $375 (which is less than the Bolex 160 cost when it was sold new in 1970). Click the link to find out everything that Bolex did when they performed their 1st class service on his camera , but this is the part that caught my eye:
What surprised me most was that the company still had so many new parts in stock--a new front lens element and even the circuit board?!! I asked Marc whether they were depleting a small inventory of parts and he sent the following reply:
"We have many new parts for the 150 - 155 - 160 camera and can get them 100% rebuilt, for many years to come. We can also rebuild most other Super 8 Bolex and Eumig cameras and projectors, and can service some Beaulieu ones. We can also rebuild almost all 8mm Bolex - Eumig and some Beaulieu film projectors. Of course we can service all Bolex 16mm cameras, can convert them to Super 16, and are still manufacturing brand new cameras. The only cameras we cannot rebuild / service are the 8mm ones. We stopped servicing 8mm film cameras 40 years ago. In case you - or friends of yours - have more cameras that need to be serviced, please don't hesitate to contact us. We would be very pleased to help you."

It makes me think that anyone who really wanted a "New" Super-8 camera would do well to scout around for a Bolex 160 in good condition and then send it in for the full refurbish treatment , or if you wanted a camera with more features look for a Eumig 860/880/881 PMA or the similar Bolex-branded models 660/680 .

I've been impressed by footage I've seen from that odd-shaped looking Bolex 160 . I've never had one, but am keeping an eye out for one in good condition. I did own a Eumig 880 PMA back when I was in college and have fond memories of the good footage I got from that camera. The only thing I don't much care for on the Bolex 160 is the lack of manual exposure (but it does have an EE lock , like the Canon 514 XLS has , which come to think of it I always enjoyed shooting with the simple Canon 514 XLS and found the EE lock a pretty workable solution in most situations ... I made a little velcro "latch" to keep it in the locked position so I didn't have to keep my finger on the EE lock lever)

Of course there are other places doing refurbish jobs on Beaulieus, Canons, Nizos but it seems that at least as of a few years ago Bolex was saying that they still had enough factory spare parts to keep supplying "like New" Bolex and Eumig Super 8 cameras to anyone who is willing to invest the money.

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by kuparikettu » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:42 pm


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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by super8man » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:13 pm

That's HUGE, whoa. Like a bloated Leicina Special.

Well, I will say, size matters. Here's a direct upload of in-camera Pentax Q HDMI video shot with the 38mm f1.8 Canon Cine lens from a Canon Cine 8, using a D-Mount adapter on both the lens and the camera.

http://youtu.be/8Kktm3ZvMuU

Hands down, the best interchangeable lens "image capturing device" I have ever travelled with. Best of both worlds - the old school D-mount lenses and new school imaging box. Got a few looks from old timers too, fun.
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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by kuparikettu » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:00 am

I really am tempted to say a few words on how a pencil is much more portable than any camera and produces nice pictures in good hands and doesn't cost much but since this is a small gauge cine film forum, I think I'll pass.. :?

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It's Pro8mm Facebook page, but the response sure is quite different.

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by super8man » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:58 am

This forum has never been one to NOT trail off on other tangents in any given thread. In fact, some of the most thought provoking ideas come from when you push the envelope and think outside of the box...or in this case, the gauge. We are entering an age of repurposing old technology. Who knows where it may lead us. Perhaps a new super 8mm camera, or, just maybe, the vaporware of a digital cartridge in the shape of a super 8mm cartridge so we can all enjoy the glass of any given camera. Don't hold back.
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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by carllooper » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:39 pm

Well that's certainly a relief.

I don't have to keep saying "if it's happening" anymore.

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by kuparikettu » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:00 pm

super8man wrote:This forum has never been one to NOT trail off on other tangents in any given thread. In fact, some of the most thought provoking ideas come from when you push the envelope and think outside of the box...or in this case, the gauge. We are entering an age of repurposing old technology. Who knows where it may lead us. Perhaps a new super 8mm camera, or, just maybe, the vaporware of a digital cartridge in the shape of a super 8mm cartridge so we can all enjoy the glass of any given camera. Don't hold back.
Well, that digital cartridge being mentioned I think you are right.

And who knows, maybe all of those hipsters who now buy 16mm cine lenses for their Black Magic Pocket Cinema Cameras and microfourthirds are more likely to also try a real cine camera since they already own suitable glass! 8)

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by carllooper » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:23 am

super8man wrote:This forum has never been one to NOT trail off on other tangents in any given thread. In fact, some of the most thought provoking ideas come from when you push the envelope and think outside of the box...or in this case, the gauge. We are entering an age of repurposing old technology. Who knows where it may lead us. Perhaps a new super 8mm camera, or, just maybe, the vaporware of a digital cartridge in the shape of a super 8mm cartridge so we can all enjoy the glass of any given camera. Don't hold back.
A digital cart for existing Super8 cameras is interesting. There, as you suggest, the focus is on the glass (on the optics) rather than the media (such as photochemistry). If you have an existing Super8 camera with good optics a way to demonstrate that could indeed be using a digital cart.

I've thought through this idea before, if not completely. One of the challenges is that the sensor would have to be the size of Super8 film if it's to fit into the gate and even there it can run into problems with the camera claw. An alternative might be to place the sensor further back but this would then require additional optics to correct, and defeat the idea of exploiting the good glass that originally motivates the idea.

A sensor the size of Super8 film is not out of the question of course, but many sensors put their wiring around the active sensor cells and involve a mounting frame in the same plane. You would have to design a sensor specifically for fitting into the tight constraints of the Super8 camera gate - one that had it's sensor cells facing forward without any fluff around it. The rest is easy: putting a credit card computer, custom circuit, battery and SD card inside a plastic box the shape of a Super8 cart.

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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by aj » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:53 pm

super8man wrote: I hate to say it but the train has left the station. I think this same discussion has been taken up in the "wooden boats" forum. Speaking from experience, while it is interesting to contemplate building a 40-foot wooden sailboat, the days of affordable and available quality timber has pretty much disappeared. There's no going back. Enjoy what we had and what is left but any talk of something new is pretty much bordering on penny stock dreams with someone behind a curtain pulling the strings. Keep your thoughts close and your money closer.
Thought of your post when I noticed this coming by :) The Regular-8 were new cameras then and timber was available in the land of plenty...
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Re: Discussions about a hypothetical new S-8 camera

Post by PyrodsTechnology » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:16 am

seems that a "new" S8 professionelle camera existe depuis 1972 with 60Mt coaxial magazine
http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Beaulieu_6008_S

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