Variable Speed 16mm Projector

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deVere
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Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by deVere » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:19 pm

Does anyone know of a 16mm projector that has variable speed control and not simply 18/24fps switches - a projector that essentially gives you all the inbetween frame rates from say 8fps upwards controlled with a dial. I've seen 8mm projectors that have this kind of function but never 16.

If not, would it be possible to amend a 16mm projector to have this capability? I guess you could adjust the power running to the projector but this would obviously affect the bulb....I have no electrical skills but know people who do if this was a possibility.

Thanks.

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Herb Montes
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by Herb Montes » Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:25 am

I have a Kodak Analyst 16mm projector which has a variable speed knob. It also has an instant reverse switch. It was used to study sport films. It only has a 400 foot capacity and is a silent projector.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by richard p. t. » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:13 am

Eiki also made an 'analysis' projector.
Otherwise, find yourself a projector that has electrical switching of speed between 18 and 24 (not mechanical switching, but electrical). I have a Bell and Howell projector that is like this. It is a simple matter then of opening the projector and finding the variable resistors that control the speed. If its a 2 speed projector there should be 2 such resistors. When you find them, check which is for 18 and which is for 24 by turning them and seeing if the speed is changing. Be careful if you have the back open and the power plugged in - you could zap yourself if you touch the mains.
What I do next is to take out (ie unsolder) one of these variable resistors (I take out the 18 fps one as 24 fps is a more useful normal speed to keep as an option for the projector). Measure the resistence of this variable resistor (they are 3 pinned - you want to measure from end to end of the resistor, not simply from one end to the tap).
The resistor you have removed will be a 'trim-pot' - the type that isn't meant to be regularly adjusted, just set then forgotten. What you want to do now is buy a variable resistor of the same size that has a shaft for attaching a knob. Wire this new resistor in and mount it on the projector box such that you can control the speed from the outside.
This is dead easy. If you can't do it, find someone who has very basic electronic skills and a soldering iron and get them to do it for you. Should take just a few minutes.
good luck,
richard
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by granfer » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:35 am

Richard's idea is fine if you only want an external FINE adjustment of speed; it will only control the speed over the range of the original "trimpot".
If you are looking for a full range of speed control, you could try a machine such as the SPECTO, available in 8mm, 16mm and 9.5mm versions (and various multi gauge variants) but these are silent only.
Modifying other machines for wider speed control range is usually possible, but you would have to examine the motor types and existing circuits to determine a method.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:42 pm

deVere.

What are your intentions regarding a mult-variable speed 16mm projector?
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deVere
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by deVere » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:30 pm

Thanks everyone for responses, really helpful.

In regards what I want to do with the projector...I've been working a fair bit with unsplit Standard 8 and loopers running on 2 16mm projectors. I've made films that work through superimposition of the 2 projectors, I like that they drift in and out of sync but would like to control this aspect of it to the extent that I can gently control the synchronicity and not rely on the chance factor of the current setup. I'd like to eventually develop a live performance of the films, so having control of this would be incredibly useful.

Richard, would it be possible to run lead from the variable control switch so that I can be some distance from the projector?

Thanks,

Dominic.

robbie
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by robbie » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:45 pm

are you familiar with Leah Singer and Lee Renald's "Drift" film-performance? if not, check it out. there's good bit of info if you google as well the DVD of performance can be found in local video stores and Netflix.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by Davideo » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:53 pm

Athena Mark IV series has different speeds- 1fps, 2fps, 4fps, 6fps, 8fps, 12fps, 16fps, 24fps, and single frame advance. It's a high end 16mm projector (early 70's) used in a film chain system with a Laird optical multiplexer. Hard to find. I have a system here for sale as I use Workprinters now. Local pickup only as it's 500 pounds.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by richard p. t. » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:17 am

Hi Dominic,
you certainly could put the variable resistor on a long lead. I'd put a socket in the top of the projector, then make up a long lead with a plug at one end and the resistor (in a little box with a control knob on the outside) at the other. That way you can remove the cable from the projector when traveling and won't accidently rip it off.
Actually its a great idea.
I like the sound of your expanded cinema piece. You know, I am one of the directors of the Australian International Experimental Film Festival. Our entry deadline is post mark 12 feb. We are in to expanded cinema. Maybe you have something you could enter. Sounds like Robbie is doing some interesting experimental work as well. Enter something in our festival Robbie.
cheers,
ricahrd
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by Esoteric » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:00 pm

Might I suggest you look for a good Ampro Stylist New Educational. I have one of these, as well as 3 Major models, the Mk2, Mk3 & Mk4.

Anyway, the New Educational has variable speed built in from 12fps to 25fps. You can also use up to 1,000 watt lamp!

Although a few years old now, a good condition one will last for ever - built like a tank!

Just a thought - I couldn't be more delighted with all my Ampros.
Dave.

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deVere
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by deVere » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:27 pm

Thanks for the recommendation Robbie, did not know about Drift but have just ordered a copy on DVD. Rather strange coincidence too - I was shooting some 16mm at a Festival in Dec. and Sonic Youth were kind enough to let me make a film of them, had a chat with Lee Ranaldo afterwards about various things and he gave me his contact address to send some work over to him, really lovely guy and incredibly knowledgeable about film and photographic related things.

Richard, just seen your post. I'll be sure to send something in for next year and thanks for your comments re the projector and letting me know about the Festival which sounds great - hopefully I'll have this work up and running to send over in some sort of form.

Am I correct in thinking that this resistor would only be switchable between 18fps and 24fps (on most machines) further to Granfer's comments? Am currently keeping my eyes peeled on ebay UK for projectors but not that many listed recently. I had a quick look for the Ampro and there is currently one going on ebay, I don't think it's the educational version though.

Dominic.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by Esoteric » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:17 pm

Hi Dominic,

If you're talking about the one that's starting at £99.99 and is from Tonbridge - seller, richardandclare; eBay Item No. 110493513082; then it IS an Educational model with variable speed. The speed control is the upper right-hand white knob.

Cheers,
Dave.

Valves and celluloid rule OK!

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jpolzfuss
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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by jpolzfuss » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:47 pm

What about the "Selecta-Frame 5 Analysis Projector"?
http://www.visinst.com/Projector.html
This space was left intenionally blank.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by sciolist » Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:36 pm

The Siemens 2000 16mm projector has infinitely adjustable variable speed between 16 and 24 frames/second, with exact settings achieved (at 16, 18, 20, and 24 frames/second) with the use of an illuminated stroboscope. "When the black lines on the selected speed circle appear to stand still," reads the instruction manual, "the projector is running exactly at that speed. This speed will remain constant. . . ." These projectors are common in Germany but appear infrequently in North America (one had been listed recently at eBay - item no. 120541544216 - by a seller in Montréal). The projectors have a knob-actuated adjustable shutter, too, permitting easy switching between two-bladed and three-bladed operation.

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Re: Variable Speed 16mm Projector

Post by doug » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:04 am

Sounds interesting ! :)
Have you thought about a Bolex S.221 or S.321 ? They are variable from about 12 or 14 fps up to 25 or so. There's a stroboscope as well to get it right. I've got a S.321 and reckon it's one of the best 16mm projectors around. I now use it alot for copying. See my blog at www.filmcamblog.blogspot.com

Cheers
Doug
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