Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

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doug
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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by doug » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:07 pm

Yes I can see the advantages, Mmechanic, of the numerous tubs. Presumably using one tub the draining does take quite a long time because of the amount of chemicals. I'm used to Jobo drum colour processing (with lift) where the draining time is quite short as the amount is rather smaller. Still processing I mean. And cine processing with Russian tank also quite short draining time, but then maybe there's inaccuracy creeping in as one side of the spiral gets more etc.
Have you made your film holder ? Would be nice to see a photo :)
Is it designed for 16mm ? I presume you dunk the cylinder into the tub vertically ? Then how do you agitate the film please. Or am I completely dumb here 8-}
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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by Mmechanic » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:37 am

No, haven’t. Broke

JOBO plastic 100-ft. reels, dumped into ten liter baths (2.64 gal), then swirl it gently around because the tub is larger. The baths are constantly roughed up so that the chemicals exchange at the film surface can take place with ever new liquid. Like a deep plunge in the sea . . .

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by slashmaster » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:06 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone. I bought a bag of d-19 to try when it arrives. :)

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by slashmaster » Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:24 am

I got my d-19!... Have been been processing ti-x and fomapan at 7 minutes developer, 10 minutes in a weak solution of bleach, 4 minutes clearing bath, 5 minutes developer and 4 minutes fixer. Have been getting very good results with the Tri-x and Fomapan! Then I tried to do a couple ADOX super 8 cartridges. Both came out very dark. It's possible I could have underexposed them but get the feeling I'm supposed to do something a little different for them? I'm happy to discover both of my ADOX catridges seem to have a few more feet of film than the tri-x seem to. But what do you do with the rest of it when it doesn't fit on your 50 foot lomo reel?

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by nikonr10 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:19 am

slashmaster wrote:I got my d-19!... Have been been processing ti-x and fomapan at 7 minutes developer, 10 minutes in a weak solution of bleach, 4 minutes clearing bath, 5 minutes developer and 4 minutes fixer. Have been getting very good results with the Tri-x and Fomapan! Then I tried to do a couple ADOX super 8 cartridges. Both came out very dark. It's possible I could have underexposed them but get the feeling I'm supposed to do something a little different for them? I'm happy to discover both of my ADOX catridges seem to have a few more feet of film than the tri-x seem to. But what do you do with the rest of it when it doesn't fit on your 50 foot lomo reel?
To many factors at play , What did you do ?

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by slashmaster » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:40 am

nikonr10 wrote:
slashmaster wrote:I got my d-19!... Have been been processing ti-x and fomapan at 7 minutes developer, 10 minutes in a weak solution of bleach, 4 minutes clearing bath, 5 minutes developer and 4 minutes fixer. Have been getting very good results with the Tri-x and Fomapan! Then I tried to do a couple ADOX super 8 cartridges. Both came out very dark. It's possible I could have underexposed them but get the feeling I'm supposed to do something a little different for them? I'm happy to discover both of my ADOX catridges seem to have a few more feet of film than the tri-x seem to. But what do you do with the rest of it when it doesn't fit on your 50 foot lomo reel?
To many factors at play , What did you do ?
You want to know how I mixed each of the chemicals? Or how much flushing I did between the baths? I did a lot of flushing, filled the tank up with water and drained at least 3 times between baths. The developer, bleach, clearing bath are still very fresh. The fixer is several months old.

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by nikonr10 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:37 pm

slashmaster wrote:
nikonr10 wrote:
slashmaster wrote:I got my d-19!... Have been been processing ti-x and fomapan at 7 minutes developer, 10 minutes in a weak solution of bleach, 4 minutes clearing bath, 5 minutes developer and 4 minutes fixer. Have been getting very good results with the Tri-x and Fomapan! Then I tried to do a couple ADOX super 8 cartridges. Both came out very dark. It's possible I could have underexposed them but get the feeling I'm supposed to do something a little different for them? I'm happy to discover both of my ADOX catridges seem to have a few more feet of film than the tri-x seem to. But what do you do with the rest of it when it doesn't fit on your 50 foot lomo reel?
To many factors at play , What did you do ?
You want to know how I mixed each of the chemicals? Or how much flushing I did between the baths? I did a lot of flushing, filled the tank up with water and drained at least 3 times between baths. The developer, bleach, clearing bath are still very fresh. The fixer is several months old.
Give a break down of what you have done to get to this , No images on film ? too many factors .
starting from the beginning .

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by slashmaster » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:39 am

[/quote]

Give a break down of what you have done to get to this , No images on film ? too many factors .
starting from the beginning .[/quote]
I definitely got images on film. They are just about a stop or more too dark all through the film. If I remember right I believe I shot at f 8 around noon at 18 fps on a sunny day. Wouldn't that be about right for 100 asa? Then I put the cartridges back in their plastic bags and kept them in the fridge for 2 years until I had learned how to develop reversal. When I got my bag of d-19 I mixed half the bag in a 2 liter glass bottle. heated it up to about 115 degrees. The bleach was 15 grams of potasium dichromate and about 35 milliliters of battery acid from Autozone put in a 1.75 liter bottle and filled to the top with distilled water. What else would you like to know?

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by nikonr10 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:00 am

slashmaster wrote:
Give a break down of what you have done to get to this , No images on film ? too many factors .
starting from the beginning .[/quote]
I definitely got images on film. They are just about a stop or more too dark all through the film. If I remember right I believe I shot at f 8 around noon at 18 fps on a sunny day. Wouldn't that be about right for 100 asa? Then I put the cartridges back in their plastic bags and kept them in the fridge for 2 years until I had learned how to develop reversal. When I got my bag of d-19 I mixed half the bag in a 2 liter glass bottle. heated it up to about 115 degrees. The bleach was 15 grams of potasium dichromate and about 35 milliliters of battery acid from Autozone put in a 1.75 liter bottle and filled to the top with distilled water. What else would you like to know?[/quote]

By getting a break down of what you have done /is the only way to see what has gone wrong etc, Still not enough to go on ?
Like all crafts takes time to learn and do well from our mistakes we learn .

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by Mmechanic » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:43 am

slashmaster wrote:When I got my bag of d-19 I mixed half the bag in a 2 liter glass bottle. heated it up to about 115 degrees.
That was a mistake. Why heat up the solution?

Two things developing baths dislike: oxigen and warmth. The warmer the bath is the faster it oxidizes. Remember that developing baths act as reducers. There is always a REDOX double reaction, REDuction of light-struck silver salts to silver and OXidation of the agent(s). The oxidized organic compounds (hydroquinone, phenidone, and all others) turn brownish. I think you know that hue the developing bath takes on after a while. The more a developer becomes oxidized the less it will reduce. Hence, most probably, the poor result.

Best keep all baths at 20 °C (68 Fahrenheit). Dissolve at that temperature. Dissolve the dry chemicals with mechanical aid. I usually set up a wide trough, fill in the water, then pour in the powder in one continuous shot to take it under water as fast as possible, and finally rub-dissolve it with my hands in rubber gloves on itself and against the trough.

All developers contain anti-oxidizers as a protection for the reducing agent(s). Preparing my own developing baths from raw chemicals I first put in those, they bind the oxigen that’s part of the air that is always dissolved in water. We have around 8.8 mg of oxigen per liter at 20 °C. The only remedy for this problem would be to work with diver’s gear in a vacuum or a darkroom filled with nitrogen.

Always let a freshly prepared developing bath rest for at least ten minutes after the point when you don’t see any more clouding. Dissolution from grains down to molecules takes time.

After use, you can pour baths into air-tight containers, glass bottles at best.

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by slashmaster » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:53 pm

Mmechanic wrote:
slashmaster wrote:When I got my bag of d-19 I mixed half the bag in a 2 liter glass bottle. heated it up to about 115 degrees.
That was a mistake. Why heat up the solution?

Two things developing baths dislike: oxigen and warmth. The warmer the bath is the faster it oxidizes. Remember that developing baths act as reducers. There is always a REDOX double reaction, REDuction of light-struck silver salts to silver and OXidation of the agent(s). The oxidized organic compounds (hydroquinone, phenidone, and all others) turn brownish. I think you know that hue the developing bath takes on after a while. The more a developer becomes oxidized the less it will reduce. Hence, most probably, the poor result.

Best keep all baths at 20 °C (68 Fahrenheit). Dissolve at that temperature. Dissolve the dry chemicals with mechanical aid. I usually set up a wide trough, fill in the water, then pour in the powder in one continuous shot to take it under water as fast as possible, and finally rub-dissolve it with my hands in rubber gloves on itself and against the trough.

All developers contain anti-oxidizers as a protection for the reducing agent(s). Preparing my own developing baths from raw chemicals I first put in those, they bind the oxigen that’s part of the air that is always dissolved in water. We have around 8.8 mg of oxigen per liter at 20 °C. The only remedy for this problem would be to work with diver’s gear in a vacuum or a darkroom filled with nitrogen.

Always let a freshly prepared developing bath rest for at least ten minutes after the point when you don’t see any more clouding. Dissolution from grains down to molecules takes time.

After use, you can pour baths into air-tight containers, glass bottles at best.
Oh alright. It says on both a bag of d-19 and d-76 to heat the water between 100-120 degrees for mixing. That's why I did it. Glad to know it can be done without doing that. It took a long time to mix when I did it too. I think I'm going to use a drill press with a mixing beater next time.

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by aj » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:08 pm

I would think 'time' is a better friend than a 'beater' :)

Just give it some time to dissolve. Mechanical mixing will cause a lot of turbulence and even bubbles thus exposing the liquid to a lot more oxygen than when it would have been left alone a while.
I would recommend to prepare the baths a day or more ahead or time. Only Permanganate bleach needs to be prepared just before usage.
Kind regards,

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by Mmechanic » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:06 am

An important saying in cinema world: stirred, not shaken.

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Re: Could use a little help processing film as reversal.

Post by nikonr10 » Fri Jul 01, 2016 3:11 pm

Mmechanic wrote:An important saying in cinema world: stirred, not shaken.
And look where thats got the UK !

I really hope you are doing this all very safely as playing with battery acid is not very clever also heating chemicals up to that point .

Also sunny 16 rule would not apply to reversal filmmaking , Be it B/W or E6 .

From the sounds of what you have wrote down you do not know what you are doing ?
Think of you health and others around you . Please .

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