Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by carllooper » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:10 am

Will2 wrote:Makes me wonder how easy the audio syncing will be. It's tricky to do with a Zoom and a regular Super 8 camera...

I assume that you'll get a separate audio file each time the trigger is pulled and you'll manually sync it up with each cut. We could do this but I can't wait until they start getting the soccer mom calls on how this works!
On the Logmar the sound starts and stops with each shot. So I imagine the Kodak one would be the same. And I imagine it would have crystal sync transport (as the Logmar does). It's a quasi-single system sound, and not really a feature you'd use for drama work (or similar work), other than as a guide track. You really want to record top and tail sound to get some of the ambiance in a scene, and give yourself some overlap in the edit. In other words, shoot on a separate recorder. I shot a film recently (on 16mm) in which most of the sound was done completely wild. Every now and then I'd remember to get some sound clap in. But I found it was quite enjoyable syncronising it all up - looking at lips, and other cues in the image to rock and roll the sound into place. And sync maintenance for the duration of a shot turned out fine, despite not having a crystal sync transport, and having set the camera fps using a dial without any click stops.

But for documentary situations (or "news" material), especially if response time is critical, the quasi-single system sound becomes very useful. I suspect soccer moms won't be part of the targeted demographic. They'd be targeting hipsters, film students, and young people, all of whom will be more than happy to follow how-to-edit-film tutorials.

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by S8 Booster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:32 am

Kodak rep at CES reveals more info regarding the "package": http://youtu.be/Cn-AwhYOHZE

Scans planned to be 4k - possibly 5k.

I think scanned film may be downloaded (sky) from what he says.

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by supa8 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:52 am

So it doesn't record any video. It seems you need to hook up a digital recorder like a Ninja to the HDMI output of the camera if you want that function.

Also, I wonder how silent the camera will run compared to other models for recording sound. Will a blimp be required? I would say so given the opening of the camera.

4k scan? Really? Ok why not, buto capture all the depth of the film? 4k would be overkill, especially if it's compressed, to definitely 1080p or slightly more would be preferable with less compression (to get that depth)

Finally, the lens has manual f-stops I see, which is great, but a lot of what makes super8 easy is the point and shoot. So if your average consumer buying the camera is doing handheld shots, having to focus and gauge the aperture at the same time, there's going to be a lot of under/overexposed footage out there...
Consumers have been taking autofocus for granted for over 20 years, nevermind automatic aperture...

Nonetheless, I am looking forward to getting this camera. How would one go about sourcing one from the first batch. Would professionals and die-hards that have been promoting super8 for years get first choice?


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Andreas Wideroe » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:24 pm

S8 Booster wrote:Scans planned to be 4k - possibly 5k.
which smells a lot like "ScanStation". :)
http://www.lasergraphics.com/scanstation-features.html
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Tscan » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:50 pm

Will2 wrote:Makes me wonder how easy the audio syncing will be. It's tricky to do with a Zoom and a regular Super 8 camera...

I assume that you'll get a separate audio file each time the trigger is pulled and you'll manually sync it up with each cut. We could do this but I can't wait until they start getting the soccer mom calls on how this works!
Back when the Vision2 films came out in S8, I filmed live bands with live audio for a couple years. I had to use 2 cameras a lot, to cut back and forth in order to keep things in sync. Thousands of feet all synced together with nothing but tedious guess work (had a lot more free time back then) A lot of splicing and nudging 5 sec shots to perfection. Just having crystal sync will be a dream come true alone.

The price points for the packages mentioned in all the blogging were at $50-$75 a roll which we all know is too high. Right now a roll with processing can be done for $40. Since I can do my own scans, i wonder what or if there will be any pricing without the scan option? Will there be an option for film and processing only? But for less than the $40 it costs now? Based on the rumors, i'm better off just buying the stock by itself and sending it to the same lab i've been using. I would almost expect that since this is a promotion, prices would come down a little? My biggest question right now is will I be able to buy film with processing only for less than $40 per roll? K40 was $13.50 with processing and mailer 12 years ago. I think they could do that now for no more than $30.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by BAC » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:59 pm

supa8 wrote:So it doesn't record any video. It seems you need to hook up a digital recorder like a Ninja to the HDMI output of the camera if you want that function.

Also, I wonder how silent the camera will run compared to other models for recording sound. Will a blimp be required? I would say so given the opening of the camera.

4k scan? Really? Ok why not, buto capture all the depth of the film? 4k would be overkill, especially if it's compressed, to definitely 1080p or slightly more would be preferable with less compression (to get that depth)

Finally, the lens has manual f-stops I see, which is great, but a lot of what makes super8 easy is the point and shoot. So if your average consumer buying the camera is doing handheld shots, having to focus and gauge the aperture at the same time, there's going to be a lot of under/overexposed footage out there...
Consumers have been taking autofocus for granted for over 20 years, nevermind automatic aperture...

Nonetheless, I am looking forward to getting this camera. How would one go about sourcing one from the first batch. Would professionals and die-hards that have been promoting super8 for years get first choice?
I saw one photo of the mic unplugged and it looked like a 1/8" standard jack so you should be able to run any mic with a cable to get it away from the camera.

Most C-mount lenses are manual, that's probably why they made it this way. I can see people being turned off by this after they shoot their first roll of film expecting the camera to do everything for them and find out everything is out of focus and exposed wrong. How many young people these days have ever adjusted the aperture or focus on a camera. The only problem I see with the lenses is the image circle they will get from most C-mount lenses designed for 16mm cameras. you would need a wide angle lens to get a standard lens image on super 8 film. There are some C-mount lenses that were made for the Bolex H8 Reflex that would work but they are already expensive, I can't imagine what the cost will be after this camera comes out. My Vario Switar 36EE Zoom lens does have a fully automatic diaphragm so that would be an option. The Switar 5.5mm f/1.6 H8 rx would be a good option for wide angle. A C-mount to D-mount adapter may be another option, there are plenty of affordable D-mount lenses out there.

To me the most important question has not been answered yet, will I get a positive print to view with a projector? They seem to be talking around that point because they are still working out the details.


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by inlieubeaulieu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:59 pm

If it is a standard C-mount (which I see no reason for why it shouldn't be), a D-mount (or H8RX c-mount lenses) will not work. I once tried to adapt a Kern-Paillard 13mm f0.9 D-mount lens to my Beaulieu 5008s and it simply could not be done. The focal distance of D-mount is 12.29mm, a far cry from C-mounts 17.526mm, which means the D-mount lens would have to be capable of recessing 5.236mm into the body of the camera (where I'm sure the shutter will be located).
There are a whole lot of super8 C-mount zoom lenses out there made for Beaulieu and Pathé cameras by Angénieux and Schneider. I think these are the best option. Personally I'm excited to try out my Angénieux 6-80mm, and my (growing) collection of Kern-Paillard Switar AR C-mount lenses.


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by S8 Booster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:09 pm

The Chinon Bellami Retro style video cam use D-mount lenses originally but there is adapters which Supports C, CS, and M42 mount lenses by using option mount adaptors

CHINON Bellami HD-1 D-mount LENS TEST

Zunow 38mm f1.9 cine movie video lens D-mount for Chinon Bellami HD-1


Image

Image
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by inlieubeaulieu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:22 pm

Looking around online, the Chinon camera appears to have replaceable adapters. It comes with a D-mount lens coupled with an adapter, but a separate C-mount adapter is available. At least that's what I could find (here http://www.wired.com/2014/04/chinon-bellami-hd-1/ ). I would be really surprised if that beefy adapter attaches to a c-mount on the body as it looks to add several mm to the lenses distance. I was interested in this cam for awhile, but it's just too $ much for (what for me would be) a toy.

EDIT: if the initial mount is a D-mount, a c-mount is a very easy adapter. the inverse, not so much.


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by S8 Booster » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:31 pm

The original STD mount is D-mount.

Silly me was in Japan (Chino) approx when it was introduced - I could have bought it then for 50% of the current eBay price.

The cam is designed to try to replicate the look/imagery of Super8/8mm. Both the lens & chip is designed with this in mind. Correct frame rates though :)
Cam is all manual regarding Focus and aperture aimed at more experienced users.

Manufacturer WEB ad: http://chinon.jp/bellami/en/index.htm

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by inlieubeaulieu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:49 pm

Upon reflection I'm wondering if most D-mount lenses would even cover a Max-8 frame. Being as D-mount was designed for regular 8mm, and Super8 has some 35% increase in surface area over 8mm, and Max8 some 20% increase over Super8, I bet we'd see a lot of vignetting were an adapter possible. much in the same way that not all c-mount lenses cover a Super16 frame.

EDIT: and at 50% the Bellami is a little closer to being attractive for me, but I feel I'd just use it to test lenses with.


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by BAC » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:37 pm

inlieubeaulieu wrote:If it is a standard C-mount (which I see no reason for why it shouldn't be), a D-mount (or H8RX c-mount lenses) will not work. I once tried to adapt a Kern-Paillard 13mm f0.9 D-mount lens to my Beaulieu 5008s and it simply could not be done. The focal distance of D-mount is 12.29mm, a far cry from C-mounts 17.526mm, which means the D-mount lens would have to be capable of recessing 5.236mm into the body of the camera (where I'm sure the shutter will be located).
There are a whole lot of super8 C-mount zoom lenses out there made for Beaulieu and Pathé cameras by Angénieux and Schneider. I think these are the best option. Personally I'm excited to try out my Angénieux 6-80mm, and my (growing) collection of Kern-Paillard Switar AR C-mount lenses.
I have nothing that will work with it then, bummer. So the Beaulieu C-mount has the same focal distance as 16mm?


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Tscan » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:41 pm

All of those C-mount non reflex Kerns should work fine, but they've all quadrupled in price in the last few years.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by inlieubeaulieu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm

BAC wrote:
I have nothing that will work with it then, bummer. So the Beaulieu C-mount has the same focal distance as 16mm?
they sure do... if you put them on a 16mm camera they work totally fine, but have a nearly complete image circle in the middle. I've often thought about using them for special effects.


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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Charlie Blackfield » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:18 pm

I've been following this thread (and the other ones about this new camera) with a lot of interest, and there's one thing I just don't get. Why keep folks banging on about this camera being likely to produce blurry / out-of-focus pictures? Looking at the specs, it comes with a fixed focus 6mm prime lens. Fixed focus may support the suspicions of blurry pictures, but what about the fact it's a prime lens? This should mean that it should stand a fair chance of producing sharper pictures than the vast majority of other Super 8 lenses. Also, 6mm makes it a pretty wide angle, which usually translates into a very decent depth of field. So unless you're shooting constantly at f1.2 or near that kind of thing and/or at very close range, you should end up with reasonably sharp/in-focus pictures. Or have I missed anything here?

It's certainly good news that they launch this new camera. And if it gets sold at 400 dollars, I'll almost certainly buy one. At 750 dollars, I'll seriously consider it. At 1,000 dollars - well, maybe not. Let's wait and see.

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