Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

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richard p. t.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by richard p. t. » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:38 am

Hey mr8mm,
you say this is a deal between kodak and pro8. But do you know that or do you think that just makes sense as a guess? Given the camera would appear to be a deal between kodak and logmar its quite likely that kodak won't be processing themselves but will be partnering with some existing player. It is probably that that might be pro8. But do you have any further information?
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by richard p. t. » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:41 am

I wonder whether they will be selling the camera with a lens at all? I don't know whether the big logmar comes with a lens. Does it? People will be expecting a zoom (as that is what super 8 cameras always have). I wonder whether they (logmar or kodak) have found a supplier of zoom lenses or whether it is going to rely on existing lenses.
rt
Just looked at the images on the kodak blog again, this time not on my phone. It appears they have drawn a fixed focal length lens in the picture. I wonder whether they mean that? Or whether it will have a C-mount like the other logmar?
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by S8 Booster » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:07 am

http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/01/06/k ... lm-camera/
The Super 8 camera comes with a C-mount Fixed 6mm, 1:1.2 Ricoh lens with full manual iris and focus control, but there is also a optional 6-48mm zoom lens also available. It will take 50ft Kodak Super 8 cartritges and can shoot in frame rates 9, 12, 18, 24, 25 (FPS) all with crystal sync. It has a integrated battery, 3.5″ viewfinder as well as a built in light meter.
shoot....

Image

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..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Andreas Wideroe » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:20 am

Awesome news!

I don't think this marriage with Pro8mm is entirely true mr8mm. I knew about this new camera for some time now and I also know other labs have been involved in the project.

What about Europe? Australia, Asia and the rest of the world? It would take ages to deal through one shop and also they wouldn't handle the volume I think (as AJ writes).

Anyways - what great news!!!

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by aj » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:14 am

Mike Brantley wrote:Wow. I'm just scratching my head trying to figure out what this is all about. Is there by any chance some possibility that these film cartridges can be used in existing cameras and digital scanning be included in cost of processing??? Or is this all incompatible with existing cameras?
Well, that is just what it is :)
It is a standard cartrdige. There isn't some use-once Flash memory glued on it.

Kodak expects to help users who are not keen on using, albeit topmodel, cameras of 30 year old.
Best help would be to drive the price per minute down again. In Europe it is now Euro 75 per 3 minutes.
It is just crazy.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by logmar_tommy » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:57 am

Hi All,

Allow me to set things straight because I see there's a lot of nonsense being told here between the good questions.
richard p. t. wrote:I wonder whether they will be selling the camera with a lens at all?
The camera has a C-mount allowing multiple lenses to be used, two options for lenses are available for customers to purchase with the camera - fixed or zoom
See the specs here: http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/consumer/ ... 4294969683
S8 Booster wrote:so this it not the Logmar camera. where does it leave the Logmar?
This is not the Logmar S-8 product that had pin registration and Latham loop.
The new Kodak camera is a "standard slot-in" cassette super8 camera like all of the "normal ones" on the market and it's a completely new design from us that doesn't resemble our S-8 in any way, shape or form.
mr8mm wrote:Look closely. This is the Logmar camera sold by PRO-8. Unfortunately Kodak, Pro8 and Logmar are in an exclusive arrangement. It is unfortunate that Logmar chose this exclusive arrangement because this will limit any price competition and in the long run depress sales. I know other companies that would love to sell the Logmar in the US but can not because of this arrangement. Limiting competition keeps prices high and limits choice.
The only truth in your statement above is that Logmar and Pro8mm has an exclusive agreement not to sell Logmar products in the US - this was a conscious decision by us, everything else you write is not true and complete nonsense - please don't spread such rumors when you know nothing about what you're talking about.
MovieStuff wrote:OMG. So Kodak has a chance to redefine 8mm for a new generation and the best they can do is Max-8? Really? Max-8????
It doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel :)

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Tommy L. Madsen
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Rob » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:30 pm

Imagine if they went the whole hog and reintroduced a colour reversal film....

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by carllooper » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:36 pm

So Logmar are involved in the technical design of the Kodak camera, but they are not making the camera as such.

But even the Logmar camera isn't actually made by Logmar. They design it and the various hardware components are then fabricated in different places across the planet and then assembled. For example, the Logmar camera body isn't machined in some Logmar owned machine shop (or in their garage) - it's built in the same place Hasselblad cameras are built. And the circuit board will be built somewhere else, and so on.

The Kodak camera will differ from the Logmar camera in that it won't have a pin registration system. It's aimed at a more traditional market, where ease of use (or idiot proofing) plays a much more important role. So it will be a traditonal "plug and play" camera. You whack in a cart and pull the trigger.

The Logmar camera is aimed at a different market - for example, it requires some expertise to use it's pin registration system. Its not that hard to learn, but it does require that you do learn it, otherwise you can get badly loaded film and corresponding bad exposures. In some circumstances, if you try hard, you can even damage the Logmar's camera's transport mechanism. The Logmar camera is therefore aimed at those who will spend the time to understand the camera and use it to it's maximum advantage. In other words it's not a camera for your average consumer.

For everyone else there will be the Kodak camera.

C
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by carllooper » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:56 pm

Rob wrote:Imagine if they went the whole hog and reintroduced a colour reversal film....
From what I was reading (but can't find where) there's to be a Super 8 print included in the Kodak deal, in addition to a digital scan of the camera original. If so, this print will be far better than colour reversal. And for a digital finish, shooting negative is far better.

But reversal does have some advantages. For example you don't have to make a print!

The downside is that as the film gets loved to death (scratched and chewed to death) there's no opportunity to go back and make a new print. But there's also something quite poetic about this aspect of reversal. It wears it's history.

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Angus » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:34 pm

Kodak seem to have confirmed that the camera will take any ordinary super 8 cartridge so this camera could be used with the new Ferrania film, or stuff from suppliers such as Kahl.....or "new old stock".

Kodak seem to be going for a system where budding film makers buy negative film, shoot it, send it to Kodak and get back their processed film plus a digital scan. Sounds good for film students and people making short films and inserts for bigger projects. But they won't force you to do that, as the camera can be used with any super 8 carts.

The camera is not too badly priced if the $400 suggested RRP is achieved, with talk of a cheaper version in 2017. Kodak are really pushing this if you look at their new website for the super 8 camera.

Any new product is good, even if I probably won't buy one....more people shooting film is good for all of us.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Mike Brantley » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:32 pm

aj wrote:
Mike Brantley wrote:Wow. I'm just scratching my head trying to figure out what this is all about. Is there by any chance some possibility that these film cartridges can be used in existing cameras and digital scanning be included in cost of processing??? Or is this all incompatible with existing cameras?
Well, that is just what it is :)
It is a standard cartrdige. There isn't some use-once Flash memory glued on it.

Kodak expects to help users who are not keen on using, albeit topmodel, cameras of 30 year old.
Best help would be to drive the price per minute down again. In Europe it is now Euro 75 per 3 minutes.
It is just crazy.
Color me intrigued. Picked up a Canon 814XLS a while back.

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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by Tscan » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:30 pm

Well this is great news no matter how it plays out or with who, because I was almost expecting this to be the last year for S8.
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by grainy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:31 am

This is the best news in a million years and I'm really glad Logmar got to work with them on this consumer version; work-well deserved for them!

My main question is whether it runs quiet? It's crystal sync capable and has a mic, but is is really quiet enough for serious sync sound shooting?

G
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by richard p. t. » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:47 am

There were two announcements - the camera and the processing telecine service.
There is a big question in my mind what this will mean for the labs not in the partnership with Kodak (which presumably is all but one of the super 8 labs). Will it put us out of business? Is that good for film? I know I'm not the only small lab operator nervous about this announcement. At this stage the only saving grace I can think of is that someone mentioned the transfer they would be offering would be SD resolution. Most of our customers wouldn't want that. But where did that fact come from? Is it true?

Want to hear the very ugly imagining I had this morning ... this is all straight out of the dark part of my soul ...
Kodak plan on using this announcement to cover that they want to stop putting super 8 in cartridges. They want to hand all loading cartridges to other parties who would become the sellers and processes of kodak stock in super 8. And that's why they were willing, for seemingly the first time in modern histroy of Kodak, to sell someone unperforated 16mm film. They plan on doing more of that...
This is a dark thought. Its not a fact. Its just a dark thought. But it reminds me of the 'hey, we are introducing a new colour reversal stock called 64t (and stopping kodachrome)'. Or, 'Hey you wanted it, so we are introducing 50d in super 8! (and discontinuing all colour reversal super 8 films)'.
I want to stress that this all comes from voices in my head while not sleeping. though, they have done this to us before ...
I also want to stress that putting aside the above thoughts, and the fact that there is a risk that this announcement will put some of us out of business (depending on how it is handled of course - it may be that they plan on getting in touch with all of us little labs and include us in the deal. It may be that more than just one seller in the USA will be able to sell this new camera) I want to stress that another new camera is a great development. It will raise the profile of the gauge. It will help those parts of film schools who still see the relevance of teaching film fend off those other forces in film schools who think the opposite.
But I worry
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Re: Kodak awakens, new S8 camera announced at CES '16

Post by grainy » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:18 am

Richard PT, if there is a petition to include small labs in the Kodak family of processors, I'd be delighted to sign it and do what I can to help promote it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Stubborn little labs have been crucial in keeping film alive. Kodak should know that, if they're not too busy salivating over star wars.
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Also: in post-production: "The Boulevard of Semi-Reconstructed Dreams" (short, Super 8)

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