Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

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silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:22 am

Trouble in Paradise

The edge printing on 50D and 250D is positioned such that it would interfere with a Regular 8 Fram.

TXR and print film doesn't have this problem. Since TXR is used for Super 8, the edge printing is smaller and/or goes through the perfs.

50D and 250D would only by useable in one direction in a Regular 8 camera.

Ugh.

Dennis

silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Fri Nov 13, 2015 3:56 am

Ok, I need some eyeballs/brains on this other than my own.

Here's what EK says.

· The 7266 and 7203 (50D) slits will have a typical “Super 8” edge print – on both sides of the rolls... This is 0.010” and typically runs through the “Super 8” perfs today (but is outside of the picture area)… will this be an issue for your (eventual) R8 rolls (I wasn’t sure what the picture area size is compared to S8)? If this edgeprinting is acceptable for you, we can still provide these codes – the rolls lengths will be shorter than what I quoted you earlier, the rolls will be 1080’ in length and packaged 2 to a (1K) can. Since I offer 7213 (this is the 200T) in Super 8, that code can be made available this way too.
· For 7207 (250D), we might have a bigger issue… As we do not offer that code in 8mm today, the only “slits” I have are edge printed for 16mm rolls (and are 2050’ in length) – the edgecode is 0.020” and would be on one side of the rolls. I have a feeling this might result in it running into the picture area on half of the R8 slits you would make – meaning you could only use 50% of each roll? You may not want the 7207 as a result of this.
· For the 3383 Color Print, the edgeprint, like 7207, is on one side and is 0.020” – if you are planning to split it, you might only be able to use one side? Perhaps you were planning to use this in 16mm format, so it might not be an issue? Since I don’t offer color print in 8mm format, this is the best I can come up with for color print slits.

Here's a full-frame test clip of 50D with perfs showing. No edgeprint visible. In this case, it's .01".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ce5nsGFB3o

But 250D has an edgeprint that is twice as wide - .02"

These

16mm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16_mm_fil ... uper16.png
8mm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_mm_film ... ouble8.png

lead me to believe that if an edgeprint on 250D doesn't show up in super 16 frame, it surely would not show up in the double 8 frame, because the double 8 frame is further from the perf than the super 16 frame.

Ok, so I've convinced myself. Does anyone see a problem here? I hope I'm not missing something.

It seems like I can't make DS8 out of 250D, but I didn't want to.

Dennis

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Will2 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:34 pm

So are they saying that what that they can send film that has been printed for Super 8 but not yet perfed? And that the printing for Super 8 is done like this (on the left):

Image

Because that's the on'y way edge printing would be an issue...seems like a strange way for them to print...I would figure it would be on the outside of a 16mm film.

Maybe I missed something in the conversation but can they just provide 16mm un-perfed? That would avoid that issue all together as Keycode is printed between perfs and just on one edge of 16mm.

I guess the issue is who is re-perfing this for you. If whomever is perfing it into regular 8mm can accept regular 16mm then you're golden; just buy 16mm single or double perf. Right?

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by 7OSE9 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:44 pm

Clear.
I'd be willing also to shot only one way.. :)

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Nicholas Kovats
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:23 pm

7OSE9 wrote:
Nicholas Kovats wrote:Great news, Dennis. The 100ft R8 price is a bit high but I understand the expense involved and the razor thin " profit" margin. LIFT use to recently stock 100ft R8 E100D for approximately $56-60 CAN so your suggested pricing is not stratospheric. My preference is for the film stock only as I have numerous local resources for processing and scanning.
Nicholas, in your your city you have also who can print the positive for projection?
Yes. On LIFT's Oxberry optical printer. It has 16/35mm mags and gates under computer control.
Nicholas Kovats
Shoot film! facebook.com/UltraPan8WidescreenFilm

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by 7OSE9 » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:35 pm

Nicholas Kovats wrote: Yes. On LIFT's Oxberry optical printer. It has 16/35mm mags and gates under computer control.
Thank you! :)

You, with the negative in Double 8, would use the positive or I am he only one who would have the negative for projection?
I ask because I noticed that the majority of users of film negatives, prefer to use for mounting on the PC. I like to use the negative also for the much margin of stop set in shot time. :)

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by fewh » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:34 am

It also will be the first time I have heard of Kodak supplying unperforated film if they do. :)
http://www.casesam.co.uk/category-galaxy-note-5-case-cover-71.html
http://www.casesam.co.uk/category-galaxy-s6-edge-plus-case-cover-77.html
http://www.casesam.co.uk/category-ascend-mate-7-case-cover-screen-protector-93.html

bolextech
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by bolextech » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:27 pm

Where does the diagram on the left entitled "super8 before slicing" originate from? Kodak?

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silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:17 am

It seems as if my order for NP film may be entered this week, and EK may ship as early as next week.

Fingers crossed!

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Will2 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:24 pm

bolextech wrote:Where does the diagram on the left entitled "super8 before slicing" originate from? Kodak?
I just made it to try and understand what we're talking about...I'm a visual guy. I was asking if that is how it comes from Kodak.

silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:37 pm

I'm not sure, but I think they were saying the super 8 edge printing would be at the edges. I'm assuming the perfs would also be at the edges before slitting.

silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:54 pm

The order is in...and I'm officially poor now.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Mana » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:39 pm

silverhalide wrote:The order is in...and I'm officially poor now.
Good on ya Dennis! (except for your wallet) Keep us updated!
R8: Bolex B8

S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)

DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4

S16: Bolex Rex4

7OSE9
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by 7OSE9 » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:09 pm

Good! :)

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Mmechanic » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:08 am

Will2, referring to the graphic, there’s one more uncertainty. According to ISO 1700 the film’s width should be 7,975 mm ± 0,04 (0.314" ± 0.0016). ISO 2966 specifies 16 mm film peforated Type 8-S (1-3) and (1-4). Funnily enough, the final width is given as 7,975 mm ± 0,05 (0.314" ± 0.002). (1-3) designates stock for printing, (1-4) for camera use. I believe communication with film manufacturers must include these standards. Agfa-Gevaert have their own nomenclature but they should understand international standards, too.

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