Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

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silverhalide
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Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:47 am

Is anyone out there interested in shooting this? I'm very close to having some manufactured.

Also, would anyone be interested in regular 8 prints from regular 8 negative film?

I was thinking of setting up a monthly processing / printing run using Fotokem or Spectra for processing, Fotokem for printing, and Spectra for print slitting.

I'll probably also have some of the stock perfed as 16mm 2R, for use in 50' mags.

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Nicholas Kovats
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:03 pm

Indeed!

My UltraPan8 Bolex is hungry for some Vision 3 50D and 250D R8 color negative. Specifically unslit as in 16mm 2R with the classic short pitch = .2994 in. Is Edward Nowill potentially undertaking the re-manufacturing for you? My preference is for 100 ft rolls. What is you website? Fotokem can do 8mm printing? Unheard of...

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by BAC » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:07 am

Do you have any idea what it would cost to process and print a 25' reel of Regular 8? What stock would it be printed to? It seems like it would be kind of expensive compared to reversal film if all I wanted was one copy to project but options are very limited right now.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by bolextech » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:56 pm

Considering this product is not offered anywhere in the world right now, your customer base is international. Perhaps you should do an online survey like the Ferrania people did a while back to gauge interest. There is a small but dedicated group of 8mm users who currently have very few film stocks to choose from. Unfortunately, a number of these filmmakers will only shoot reversal for direct projection and nothing else. A little sales job would be needed here.

Good luck!
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Will2 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:44 pm

I would buy up to (10) 25ft rolls of either...probably 50D is more useful.

Only question would be processing. Would have to find a lab in the U.S. that could process and split it. Most labs that do Regular 8mm are doing color reversal or B&W...not sure if they can do color negative.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by mr8mm » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:02 pm

Spectra in No. Hollywood can process V3 negative and slit to 8mm.

silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:21 am

Sorry for disappearing after posting...

Spectra and Fotokem will process ECN. Spectra has a 400' minimum. Fotokem has a $200 charge for running a separate batch (plus the regular per foot rate of about $.33 -- or $.165/foot for 8mm) because they don't want 8mm processing to take down their line if film breaks when they're processing commercial stuff.

Fotokem will print unslit regular 8 aka 16mm. Spectra can slit. I just have to buy 16mm print film unperforated and have it perforated in Germany. The one bad thing about the prints is that they will be on PET base, so no cement splices will be possible. That is sort of a downer, but oh well... Do people see that as a deal-breaker for prints??

The pricing won't be terribly attractive. To get NP film, I'll have to buy a very large amount. Shipping to Germany is expensive, perfing is expensive, spooling is expensive, and return shipping is expensive. To break even, I'd have to get about $30 per 25' roll of regular 8. The cost is actually lower per foot for 100' rolls, because the spooling cost is lower per foot as is the spool and can cost.

I'd like to have Gamma Ray Digital do best-light super 2k scans, and I'd like to offer the whole thing as a package, or three options perhaps:

1) film + processing + scan
2) film + processing + print
3) film + processing + print + scan

I was thinking of offering fixed processing/printing dates, maybe once a month. I'd take care of moving the materials around and return shipping.

I'm sort of excited about the idea of printing. But I'm a little worried that I may be the only person who feels that way. I'm interested in learning what others actually think.

My motivation for undertaking this project is to try to keep 8mm film from fading away completely. Think of all the nice old Bolexes out there that are aching to shoot some nice film.

I'll probably perf some 16mm 2R at the same time, since I'll have so much stock. That will be useful for 16mm mags. Retrocine.com does a fantastic job loading those, for only $10 per mag or so.

All of this is contingent on EK coming through with the NP (unperforated) stock. They intially wanted a 13,500' minimum, which is a bit more than I want to commit to (that's just the camera stock, not the print stock). But there may be some movement on that. We'll see.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by aj » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:23 am

Can't the filmsupplier deliver the film at the filmperforator in one go?
That should save on shipping and handling. Possibly save a few weeks too.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by bolextech » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:22 pm

That's interesting Dennis. Last year, when I inquired with EK about the possibility of producing a run of DS8 Vision3 50D, I was told the absolute minimum order was 25x 2000ft rolls. Of course, the film is already properly perforated, you just have to break down your 2000 foot rolls. I didn't inquire about breaking down the 2000 foot rolls into 100s or 25s. By my calculation, allowing for the standard amount of leader for head and tail wastage, that's roughly 462 100 foot rolls or 1575 25 foot rolls! Of course DS8 cameras are a lot less prevalent than Regular 8mm cameras.

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silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Thu Oct 29, 2015 5:32 pm

About shipping: It has to get to Germany either way, and cost is about the same whether I ship it or EK ships it. :-(

About minimums: Things seem to be changing at EK. Two years ago, the minimum custom job was about the cost of a Prius. But they seem to be more flexible today.

Unperforated stock is sort of the absence of finishing rather than custom finishing. To supply NP stock, all they have to do is grab a roll before it goes to the perforating machine. To supply 2R-1500 (standard 8) or 2R-1664 (DS8), they'd have to set up a perforating machine with dies which haven't been used for a few years, calibrate the machine, test, and so forth. Providing NP is much, much easier than providing custom perfed. So that's what I'm asking for, and I'll have it finished elsewhere.

I'm no expert on EK, but I believe I have detected somewhat of an evolution in thinking there, that has manifested itself as an increased willingness consider ideas that they would have never considered in the past. So instead of dismissing the idea of pulling some rolls out of the production workflow between slitting and perfing, they may be realizing that they can sell more product if they bend a little on where the product is ejected from the production process. This doesn't mean they want to be flooded with unrealistic requests - people asking for a master sheet of KR40, for instance - but it's great news for people who have realistic proposals.

The really important thing is to keep buying and shooting film. Every linear foot you shoot helps extend the life of EK.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by bolextech » Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:24 pm

That's good news if EK is more open-minded now.
At the time of my request, nobody but Kodak could do DS8 perfing.
Unperforated rolls should certainly entail lower finishing costs (you would think)....

Good luck with your project,
Jean-Louis
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Nicholas Kovats
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:03 pm

Dennis,

Would you consider just selling the film? In 100ft R8 rolls? I have processing and scanning available here locally. Does EK Germany have a web site? I could not locate utilizing general search terms. Great effort!

NK
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silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:11 pm

bolextech wrote:That's good news if EK is more open-minded now.
At the time of my request, nobody but Kodak could do DS8 perfing.
Unperforated rolls should certainly entail lower finishing costs (you would think)....

Good luck with your project,
Jean-Louis
Thanks. We'll see what happens...

silverhalide
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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by silverhalide » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:14 pm

Nicholas Kovats wrote:Dennis,

Would you consider just selling the film? In 100ft R8 rolls? I have processing and scanning available here locally. Does EK Germany have a web site? I could not locate utilizing general search terms. Great effort!

NK
Sure. I'll probably finish as R8, DS8 and 16mm 2R. The set up cost for a different perf is just a couple hundred euros (as long as the dies exist, and they do for those three).

Nothing is firm at this point, but the work continues. Not sure about EK Germany. Everything EK would come from Rochester.

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Re: Regular 8 Vision 3 50D and 250D

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:24 pm

By EK are you both referring to Kahl Film in Germany? http://www.kahlfilm.de/content.php?nav=38
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