16mm processing tank?

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pzo
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16mm processing tank?

Post by pzo » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:27 pm

In my explorations, I've found the wide, flat Lomo type for, ouch, almost $200. Also some homebrews that require incredible amounts of precision and patience using long PVC tubes as core and tank.

Any other options?

Thanks!

nikonr10
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by nikonr10 » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:01 am

pzo wrote:In my explorations, I've found the wide, flat Lomo type for, ouch, almost $200. Also some homebrews that require incredible amounts of precision and patience using long PVC tubes as core and tank.

Any other options?

Thanks!
Only other one is the bucket 's, thats not clean or precision / but cheaper > What kind of film is it that you would like to home cook ?
When I started it's took some time before I took the leap , with DIY cooking ? that was with the lomo Tank .

pzo
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by pzo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:55 pm

Just B&W reversal.

Since my post, I've become aware of the Morse G3 tank, there seems to be a small but steady supply of them going for widely varying prices: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201327991096?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I've had some other ideas, but I've got to reign in my over-enthusiasm and keep time/energy perspectives real!

nikonr10
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by nikonr10 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:44 pm

pzo wrote:Just B&W reversal.

Since my post, I've become aware of the Morse G3 tank, there seems to be a small but steady supply of them going for widely varying prices: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201327991096?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I've had some other ideas, but I've got to reign in my over-enthusiasm and keep time/energy perspectives real!
They say the morse is not the best for even processing ? as you have too wind one way then the other way. At the same speed. over Enthusiasm is not abad thing ? good way to learn ,
Fuel for the fire .

milesandjules
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by milesandjules » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:44 pm

The morse is such a total pain to use…i can't see us ever using it again....and you will die of boredom winding the film for hours…the lomo is way better (its the same as still film developing).,…go the lomo even if you need to chop the 100ft film in half..i reckon.

carllooper
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by carllooper » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:33 am

I've got a Morse which I've never used. I loaned it to a very experienced artist (who processes his own film all the time in Lomos), who had never used one, but thought he'd give it a whirl and see if it was of any use. He concluded it wasn't worth the trouble.

I believe they were used for field work during the wars - for calibrating gun sights, performing surveillance, and other technical activities, where pictorial quality wasn't a concern. If the density varied all over the shop it didn't matter - so long as one could decipher any relevant information in the result, a very rough result would suffice.

I'd like to motorise the Morse tank at some point. It's quite feasible, with a bit of testing, that one could get a good controlled even outcome using such a method. Would certainly save wear and tear of one's wrists.

C
Carl Looper
http://artistfilmworkshop.org/

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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by doug » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:35 pm

I've always thought, though might well be wrong, that there's is a risk of scatching the film as one winds it back and forth ? That's assuming there was some dirt in the liquid. Interesting about the military use.
Doug
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aj
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by aj » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:29 pm

pzo wrote:In my explorations, I've found the wide, flat Lomo type for, ouch, almost $200. Also some homebrews that require incredible amounts of precision and patience using long PVC tubes as core and tank.

Any other options?

Thanks!
$200 on a 30 meter tank isn't that much. Read up here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26664 and consider a 15 meter tank. Maybe you can this a bit cheaper. Not much though unless you find one on a faire or such.
When you put the original ends at the core to feed the film in no frames will get lost. Make sure not to damage the cut ends and just splice it back after drying. Best to cut using the cutter of a splicer then the cut will not be in your frames.
Kind regards,

André

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wahiba
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by wahiba » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:34 pm

The link on my signature has some ideas from and old book on the topic.
Decided not to change web-site, just keep updating. New movies at: http://8mmovies.yolasite.com

aj
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by aj » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:57 pm

aj wrote:
pzo wrote:In my explorations, I've found the wide, flat Lomo type for, ouch, almost $200. Also some homebrews that require incredible amounts of precision and patience using long PVC tubes as core and tank.

Any other options?

Thanks!
$200 on a 30 meter tank isn't that much. Read up here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26664 and consider a 15 meter tank. Maybe you can this a bit cheaper. Not much though unless you find one on a faire or such.
When you put the original ends at the core to feed the film in no frames will get lost. Make sure not to damage the cut ends and just splice it back after drying. Best to cut using the cutter of a splicer then the cut will not be in your frames.
With a bit of patience you can watch here how to handle 30 meter of DS8 in a LOMO 15 meter tank.
http://www.filmkorn.org/doppel-super-8- ... ntwickeln/
Kind regards,

André

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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by carllooper » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:34 am

doug wrote:I've always thought, though might well be wrong, that there's is a risk of scatching the film as one winds it back and forth ? That's assuming there was some dirt in the liquid. Interesting about the military use.
Yes could be, although I can't imagine it being much more than what the film would suffer as it winds in a camera, but of course there's more winding required in the tank as the film needs to wind back and forth a few times. On the other hand the chemistry could act as a kind of lubricant of sorts. One would have to experiment with what sort of timings are involved as any given part of the film spends most of it's time on the reel, only getting a proper taste of the chemistry during the transit from one reel to the other. I understand it can take half an hour or more - much longer than a Lomo. And of course you have to spend all that time keeping the wind going - which would drive you nuts as much as give you aching wrist joints.

Lomos are obviously the better solution.

The reason for testing the Morse was in relation to a specific problem peculiar to only B&W negative, done in a Lomo. It is a known problem: a slight oscillation in the density of the result, with no solutions seemingly available within the DIY community. It was however recently discovered that there appears to be correlation between the frequency of the radial arms on a Lomo spiral and the frequency of the density variation. Based on this discovery one could theorise that the arms are interfering with the agitation in terms of chemistry re-distribution - agitation being typically an up/down motion (where the arms would have influence). And with such a theory there are some experiments one might conceive, with alternative agitation methods, that might solve this particular problem peculiar to B&W neg in a Lomo.

C
Carl Looper
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by aj » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:11 am

Turbulence patterns in the liquid can cause areas with lesser or stronger development. Paterson tank spirals for 35mm still film had somehow an effect where 35mm perforation would clearly show streaks across the border. Jobo spirals had no such effect. To avoid all this rotation-agitation was not recommended, it was preferred to tumble the tank in all. Much Kodak seemed to adopt to recommend for all(?) their BW developers. Difficult for Lomo tanks :)

I never experienced streaks or pattern with my mostly Fomareversal BW Lomo processing. I give the spiral a rotation onece every minute and do an up and down by the hub twice at the same time.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by milesandjules » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:59 pm

I even thought of 3d printing a 100ft spiral tank…but i never worked out how to draw a spiral. #:-s Im sure it could be done…those 100ft lomos are scarce and expensive.

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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by carllooper » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:24 am

aj wrote:Turbulence patterns in the liquid can cause areas with lesser or stronger development. Paterson tank spirals for 35mm still film had somehow an effect where 35mm perforation would clearly show streaks across the border. Jobo spirals had no such effect. To avoid all this rotation-agitation was not recommended, it was preferred to tumble the tank in all. Much Kodak seemed to adopt to recommend for all(?) their BW developers. Difficult for Lomo tanks :)

I never experienced streaks or pattern with my mostly Fomareversal BW Lomo processing. I give the spiral a rotation onece every minute and do an up and down by the hub twice at the same time.
The tumbling idea sounds great. Yes, would be difficult on a Lomo.

cheers
C
Carl Looper
http://artistfilmworkshop.org/

pzo
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Re: 16mm processing tank?

Post by pzo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:38 am

Thanks for all your thoughts, folks.

And yes, Andre, $200 may not be much to you, but it is 20% of my monthly retirement income. This quest is just a low budget hobby. If I can't do it, so be it.

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