Ferrania is a go!

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carllooper
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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by carllooper » Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:51 pm

Ferrania should also consider marketing bulk rolls of Super8 film, in addition to carts - especially in light of the new Logmar camera on the way, with it's optional 200' magazine.

The magazine, apart from any other virtue it might provide, just helps one to be more grounded with respect to the fundamentals of the film medium. Before I did 16mm film, as a teenager, I was always mystifed by the inside of the Super cart, not to mention the film processing that followed. Between shooting the film and getting it back from the lab, was this big black hole in my knowledge. The Super8 pipeline insulated me from the nature of the medium. It was designed that way of course. The consumer of Super8 was modelled as those who would not (or need not) be technically oriented - they could (ideally) just point and shoot, and the system (camera manufacturers, labs, etc) would do the rest. It was a myth of course, but it's a myth that continues to this day. The problem with such a model is that it can produce a certain mystification and consequent insecurity in the consumer. The consumer can easily become removed from the nature of the medium. Now it's not so much mystification that's the problem. More the insecurity. If a consumer in the dark begins to ascribe certain magical properties to a process I don't think that's necessarily a problem. But I find this problem (if it is a problem) doesn't happen - rather the reverse tends to happen: that the less one knows about a process, the less magic one will ascribe to that process. And this I find is more of a problem. It can lead to the concept of the universe as a big fat zero. But on a more positive note I'd put it the other way: that the more one knows the more magical a studied process fundamentally becomes. I find anyway. One starts to appreciate the inherent weirdness of the universe, and that it's not a big fat zero. It's full rather than empty. Science, knowledge and magic become basically the same thing. Interchangeable terms. The real myth, I find, is not the idea that the universe is magical, but the idea that it isn't. Where does this idea come from? It comes in part (I'd argue) from an historical division between science and art. But perhaps even more so from old taboos (originally laws) against the study of the supernatural. Such laws didn't stop magicians (proto-scientists) from studying the supernatural - for they simply changed the name of what they were studying to "nature". And changed the name of their profession to "science". But the echoes of this history continue to modulate the world in which we live. Creating conceptual barriers to progress in art/science.

C
Last edited by carllooper on Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aj
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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by aj » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:03 pm

Angus wrote:As for super 8 cartridges, Kodak was left as the last manufacturer but GK were supposed to be making their own high performance cart. The website still shows them, anyone know for sure if they are available? I would think the Kodak carts are cheaper to buy, Kodak is happy to sell them to anyone who can make the minimum order.
Makes one wonder which machines they have for perforating and packaging.

The GK is being used by ADOX (Fotoimpex) for their BW S8 film. I am not sure what GK himself does with it.
This filmproduction part never caught on.

I suppose it would be good foor EU distribution when Ferrania would partner with Fotoimpex.
They have a large customerbase and are already handling newly manufactured silver-halide materials.
Color would really be a good addition to their program.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by Angus » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:54 am

This might answer questions about perforating machines


http://www.filmferrania.it/news/2014/wh ... e-other-85
The government says that by 2010 30% of us will be fat....I am merely a trendsetter :)

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by aj » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:20 am

It does :) What a nice ambience they have at the project. So refreshing after all these somber laden attempts elsewhere.

Thank you.

What an industry it has been.
We can trust it will work in the end and hopelfully there will be enough demand to keep things going.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by Angus » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:19 pm

I do buy the idea that the film industry has been through it's digital shake-up and that it's ready to settle down.

Some pros and enthusiasts are still using film, and the companies supplying film need to be able to react to new needs quicker than a huge organisation like Kodak. If the desires of filmmakers change, a small-medium company like the reborn Ferrania might be able to react by introducing new products and dropping old ones better than Kodak or Fuji. They're also in a position to bring products back after mothballing them.
The government says that by 2010 30% of us will be fat....I am merely a trendsetter :)

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by richard p. t. » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:31 pm

Personally I'm very excited about ferrania. We need to be realistic however about just how complex colour film is.
It takes a long time and a lot of resources to do r and d on any film stock, let alone colour. we.have to be extremely thankful.for whatever they do manage to produce. they can't just dial.up different speeds and colour balances. Colour film is about as complex as chemical.engineering ever gets.
Let's keep lovin' ferrania! (as we all are already)
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by Will2 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:15 pm

Sounds like they have some Kodak consultants. I bet they could pick up quite a few Kodak retirees for the price of a hotel room and a plane ticket and a few thousand dollars... a nice Italian vacation paid for.

I know Ferrania is picking up old equipment at a great price, I've often wondered would it would take to make a small run setup with new equipment...probably more than buying all the old gear at pennies on the dollar. I just worry about how much volume they have to have on those big old machines to make them work.

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by doug » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:19 pm

richard p. t. wrote:Personally I'm very excited about ferrania. We need to be realistic however about just how complex colour film is.
It takes a long time and a lot of resources to do r and d on any film stock, let alone colour. we.have to be extremely thankful.for whatever they do manage to produce. they can't just dial.up different speeds and colour balances. Colour film is about as complex as chemical.engineering ever gets.
Let's keep lovin' ferrania! (as we all are already)
Yes I see. In my previous comment I had assumed it was fairly easy to simply modify the Scotch 100 film for a lower speed, and gain extra resolution.
Let's hope they can get some kind of help from Kodak consultants... if that's true.
But I'm sure the 100 stock will be pretty good. Maybe there are ways to improve it with say pull-processing. Whatever, it's exciting what they will come up with :P and they sound a really motivated bunch
Doug
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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by aj » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:56 am

When you read the online report you will find that they are on top and have plenty people from the old staff.

Also Kodak staff, even with their former employer in disarray, likely are not allowed to share their insights with the competition. Kodak is still manufacturing several products I believer.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by aj » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:58 am

richard p. t. wrote:Personally I'm very excited about ferrania. We need to be realistic however about just how complex colour film is.
It takes a long time and a lot of resources to do r and d on any film stock, let alone colour. we.have to be extremely thankful.for whatever they do manage to produce. they can't just dial.up different speeds and colour balances. Colour film is about as complex as chemical.engineering ever gets.
Let's keep lovin' ferrania! (as we all are already)
You might want to set up a distributorship for Australia, Oceania and Asia :)
And order a batch ahead of time.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by aj » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:02 am

aj wrote:It does :) What a nice ambience they have at the project. So refreshing after all these somber laden attempts elsewhere.

Thank you.

What an industry it has been.
We can trust it will work in the end and hopelfully there will be enough demand to keep things going.
I noticed there is very nice processor in the photos too.
Used for testing I suppose as there are modern Tetenal E6 cartons there.

Postal service in Italy is a bit slow in my experience but possibly they could run a processing service too. Making the most from it all.
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by nikonr10 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:32 pm

aj wrote:
aj wrote:It does :) What a nice ambience they have at the project. So refreshing after all these somber laden attempts elsewhere.

Thank you.

What an industry it has been.
We can trust it will work in the end and hopelfully there will be enough demand to keep things going.
I noticed there is very nice processor in the photos too.
Used for testing I suppose as there are modern Tetenal E6 cartons there.

Postal service in Italy is a bit slow in my experience but possibly they could run a processing service too. Making the most from it all.
AJ , maybe asking or wishing for too much the processing ? also maybe someone to carry my camera bag as well ? just happy that there is going to be film for us filmmakers that I hope will not be become like Kodak prices .

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by Eric Milborn » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:58 am

Angus wrote: I read somewhere on the site that they are trying to reproduce Scotch Chrome as close as possible to the last incarnation of the film.
You are right. This was confirmed by one of the founders (Dave Bias).
Angus wrote: I never used it, but I believe it was pretty good.
Well, uoh mhh, yes, if you consider a RMS 13 / 100 ASA film as "good".
Agfa 200D is RMS 12 at 200 ASA. This means the Scotch Chrome will be more grainy at half the speed compared to the Agfa product. Ferrania did publish the last Scotch Chrome data sheet a while back on their site. It clearly states 100 ASA at RMS 13 granularity.

Eric

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by john59 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:14 pm

Would you kindly explain a bit more about RMS 13 Eric to us mere mortals that dont understand such terminology :D

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Re: Ferrania is a go!

Post by Eric Milborn » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:15 pm

Sure.

The RMS value gives you an idea on how grainy a film is.
High value = more grain (and less resolving power)
Low value = less grain (and more resolving power)

RMS Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_grain

Example:

Ektachrome 100G
EI (exposure index): 100 ASA
Grain: RMS 8
Resolving power: 120-135 lp (line pairs) per mm

Agfa RSX II 200D
EI (exposure index): 200 ASA
Grain: RMS 12
Resolving power: 110 lp (line pairs) per mm

Scotch Chrome 100
EI (exposure index): 100 ASA
Grain: RMS 13
Resolving power: 94 lines (?)* per mm

*The Ferrania data sheet indeed says "lines" and not "lp" or "line pairs".
I hope they mean "lp" and not "lines". In case of "lines" the "line pair" resolution would be 47 only. I can not believe that.

Eric

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