8mm in C41 chemistry?

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mr_x
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8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by mr_x » Sun May 26, 2013 7:37 pm

Hi,

Someone just asked me [paraphrased] why nobody has taken C-41 still camera film and slit
and perfed it for 8mm (and 16mm?) which could mean you'd be able to process it easily in cheap and simple chemistry?

( don't know - does anyone know please?

Thanks,

Ric

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by kuparikettu » Sun May 26, 2013 7:53 pm

Yes, it could be done. However, two challenges:
- The film isn't lubed for use in cine cameras
- Nowadays there is only one C-41 film available as bulk, that is Rollei CN200 (Agfa stock on clear polyester base)
- Slitting and perfing polyester stock might require some costly machines...

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by mr_x » Sun May 26, 2013 10:06 pm

Many thanks,

Ric

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by aj » Mon May 27, 2013 9:21 am

mr_x wrote:Hi,

Someone just asked me [paraphrased] why nobody has taken C-41 still camera film and slit
and perfed it for 8mm (and 16mm?) which could mean you'd be able to process it easily in cheap and simple chemistry?

( don't know - does anyone know please?

Thanks,

Ric
There is indeed plenty C-41 color neg on long rolls.
However, still film is not designed for ciné use. It has no backing and the emulsion is not designed for hi-speed transport over many rollers. It will scratch too easily.

There is plenty ciné negative color-film. What would be the point?
ECN-2 is much like C-41.

It perfing were a bit easier you could purchase ciné 35/16mm short ends and use these :)
Kind regards,

André

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by richard p. t. » Mon May 27, 2013 12:54 pm

The advantage is indeed the lack of backing. This makes it much less of a fiddle to process by hand than ecnII stocks.
I have been discussing this with Daniel Wittner over the last year or two. it may happen one day.
cheers,
rt
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by Daniel » Mon May 27, 2013 6:38 pm

I have been developing myself 65mm Vision3 200T color negative stock ("reformatted" to 120 medium format and used on Rollei 6008i camera) through C-41 and AP-70.
When processing vía Agfa AP-70 kit in my experience at least, the rem-jet layer was almost 100% removed during the process. When processing through C-41 I then need to remove manually the rem-jet layer.

Results of AP-70 process for Vision3 200T (medium format) :

http://m.flickr.com/photos/portafolio_d ... /lightbox/

AP-70 is Agfa's compatible C-41 process as mentionned on the kit box.

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by hirudin » Mon May 27, 2013 9:49 pm

Agfa color processing chemistry is great. I remember when I was hand processing 8x10 Kodak color infrared 2443 as a negative... when I used Kodak C-41 chemistry, the film was left with a heavy magenta cast that made the image unprintable. In contrast, Agfa chemistry gave a beautiful images with no cast at all. Awesome.

-Jesse-

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by mr_x » Mon May 27, 2013 11:46 pm

If I could film with Agfa stock / C41 process, i'd do it tomorrow - but who is to resize and perf this stock: anyone in the UK please?

Thanks ;)

Ric

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by gianni1 » Thu May 30, 2013 9:35 pm

If you send Mr Edward Nowill 16mm film stock, he'll perf it for you (I forgot Edward's email address). You'll need to also send him four 8mm spools (and cans) for each 100 foot can of film (or four 100' spools and cans for every 400' can you send him).

For processing ECN film in C41 chemistry, just add a final bath of water with dish washing liquid in it, and squeeze the film through a sponge, to remove the remjet backing. Of course, ymmv, but for art or experimental usage, it's fine.

Gianni 8)

ImageImage

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by mr_x » Fri May 31, 2013 5:07 am

gianni1 wrote:If you send Mr Edward Nowill 16mm film stock, he'll perf it for you (I forgot Edward's email address). You'll need to also send him four 8mm spools (and cans) for each 100 foot can of film (or four 100' spools and cans for every 400' can you send him).

For processing ECN film in C41 chemistry, just add a final bath of water with dish washing liquid in it, and squeeze the film through a sponge, to remove the remjet backing. Of course, ymmv, but for art or experimental usage, it's fine.

Gianni 8)

ImageImage
This sounds marvellous but where do we find unperforated 16mm film stock please?

Thanks,

Ric

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by gianni1 » Fri May 31, 2013 10:03 am

Good question. I didn't say what films to send. Most 16mm 2R film stock is OK. Don't need to find unperferated film stock. I sent him some 2R film for his 2R -> 8mm machine ( my nomenclature). I don't know if Mr. Nowill has got a 1R -> 8mm Perferator working.

Note the film stock can labels have 1R or 2R which equates to 1 Row or 2 Rows. Most film comes with perforations along one side (edge), that's 1R. It's harder to find 2R, with sprocket holes (perfs) on both sides (edges) of the film.

Double 8 (AKA) Regular 8 is a type of 2R film with twice (2X) the number of 'holes' row. 8mm cameras claw at the film 2X the frequency of 16mm cameras, then flipped over and run twice through the camera.

I sent him a can of 2R 16mm 100' film stock, together with four empty cans and spindle of Standard 8. I have also sent him a 400' can of 1R together with four empty 100' cans and spools.

Somebody correct me if I am wrong: Most 16 mm film stock is 1R because of the larger Super 16 film gate. 2R sprocket holes show up in Super 16 but not old cameras like the Bolex, Canon Scopic, Bell and Howells, or Beaulieu 16R. 2R stock is used by high speed cameras and other specialists.

Somebody needs to ask Edward if his 1R -> 8mm machine service is working.

Gianni 8)

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by gianni1 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:03 am

The current Kodak Motion Picture Product Catalog shows they sell Vision 3 16mm films Perforated Two Edges (400' on cores).




http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploaded ... 1_2013.pdf


8) Gianni

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by Mana » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:24 pm

gianni1 wrote:they sell Vision 3 16mm films Perforated Two Edges (400' on cores).







8) Gianni
And the minimum order is only 20 rolls! 8O
R8: Bolex B8

S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)

DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4

S16: Bolex Rex4

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by Mana » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:35 pm

Mana wrote:
And the minimum order is only 20 rolls! 8O
On top of that the stock we would prefer most in Double 8mm, 50D, isn't available in 2R. :|
R8: Bolex B8

S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)

DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4

S16: Bolex Rex4

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Re: 8mm in C41 chemistry?

Post by mr_x » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:23 am

Gianni,

Thanks - you shoot a lot of Standard 8 then?

Ric

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