Kodak Negative Film

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by aj » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 pm

Pj wrote:As far a I know nobody in the UK can automatically process this film which is a shame.
P
Aren't you running a processing service using these JOBO ATL machines with s8 filmholders in drums?

These machines can use just as easily do ECN Color Neg. It is much the same as C-41.
Except for clearing the remjet.
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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by Pj » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:10 pm

I have thought about it a lot, get chemicals isn't as difficult and the ECN2 process is fairly straightforward and will try it.You can devleop this film in C41 chemistry I have heard that this gives good results especially for telecine. The problem is the Remjet which has to be removed before processing in the Jobo otherwise it will fall off onto the emulsion ruining it. For this I designed a Remjet removal tank, but haven't had the time to make it.

P

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by Charlie Blackfield » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:45 pm

gaugefilm wrote:Thanks guys, I'll definitely send to Andec for processing then!

It would be good to get these transfered in HD, any ideas where I can send them for that in the UK/ Europe? I don't mind sending them off to a range of different places for different prices this first time around to decide who to use in future. I'd like to test the water... Any recommended HD neg services out there?

Cheers
The only place I've used so far for HD telecine was Uppsala Bildteknik, and it was a brilliant combination of good quality, fast turnaround and low price. Other than this, I've used Andec for SD transfers - a bit pricey, but very good quality. Can't tell you what their HD transfers are like, but if their SD transfers are anything to go by, I'd expect something really decent.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by gaugefilm » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:37 am

Cheers guys, I'll go with Uppsala then! This has also got me wondering if I can develop Neg in the lomo removing the remjet first? I've heard it's a bit of a nightmare and wouldn't attempt it commercially but it might be fun to have a go when I have some spare time on one of my own films. How difficult is it to do and how would one go about doing it?

Kind Regards and Thanks!
Kev
www.gaugefilm.co.uk

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by aj » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:59 am

Google brings you this:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/1082 ... hrome.html
with
http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploaded ... _h2407.pdf

And plenty more... :)

The problem is of course the need for physical interaction with the full surface of the film. Vigorous in and out of water while on the spiral appears to be a working method. Another way would be to use water jets. This must be a bit like a dish-washer sprayer arm from underneath the spiral. Or from above? Inducing bubbles should enhance the impact of the water? A bit like the JOBO cascade hose for 35mm tanks.
Seems not to be time-sensitive but it is all in the dark of course.
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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by kuparikettu » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:07 pm

This is how my friend does it:

Image

..with water and some very cheap brushes. But well, it's full processing unit so it isn't really that viable when taken out of that context.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by MIKI-814 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:32 am

gaugefilm wrote:Thanks guys, I'll definitely send to Andec for processing then!

It would be good to get these transfered in HD, any ideas where I can send them for that in the UK/ Europe? I don't mind sending them off to a range of different places for different prices this first time around to decide who to use in future. I'd like to test the water... Any recommended HD neg services out there?

Cheers
I strongly recommend ochoypico.com in Madrid, professional HD scanning and very pricey for S8. Uppsala seems to be a very good option too although I finally never tried.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by JeremyC » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:09 pm

I dailes in West London have started processing negative Super 8. I've spoken to their general manager, John Thadcross (haven't tried them out yet) and he told me that they have only been processing Super 8 for a month having recently completed the modifications to their equipment but the Super 8 goes throught the same process as their 16 and 35 mm jobs. They have also recenly started doing 16 mm prints and John told me that the UK artist Tacita Dean, who has been very vocal about the loss of analog film facilities in the UK, has started bringing her processing work back from Germany to I - dailies. They way they got their start was by buying Ilabs facilities when they were closed down. They also have a Spirit scanner but are only set up to do first light runs on 8 mm and John told me that Ektachrome looks better than neg when scanned.

He was vague on pricing but I got the impression its expensive but that they are looking at ways to do possible deals e.g. get a price for a bunch of cassettes rather than just sending one.

The website is:http://www.i-dailies.co.uk/index.html.

I'd be interested if any body has had experience with them.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by woods01 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:21 pm

gaugefilm wrote:Cheers guys, I'll go with Uppsala then! This has also got me wondering if I can develop Neg in the lomo removing the remjet first? I've heard it's a bit of a nightmare and wouldn't attempt it commercially but it might be fun to have a go when I have some spare time on one of my own films. How difficult is it to do and how would one go about doing it?
Borax will remove remjet. Its in a lot of household cleaners I was able to get in a cleaner actually named "Borax". In my test of processing negative as a reversal I just dipped the film into a bath with about 1 tablespoon of borax per litre of water for 1 minute. After about 30+ seconds the remjet just starts to lift off the film. I then put the film into a water wash before adding the first developer. I didn't try this with a lomo tank. The remjet came off so easily that I don't think you need a complicated process to do it but keeping the spiral clean would be a concern. You would need to do a couple water baths to be safe but I think its doable.

Now the flaw of my test was that I did the removal before developing (and I was doing a cross process), it be worth testing to see if you can leave the remjet on until after development as it would be much easier to view the removal in light.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by gaugefilm » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:30 pm

Fantastic,

I'll definitely contact I dailes and see what there pricing is like compared to Andec after the new year.

Woods01... Thanks for the tip on removing the remjet. I'll give it a try when I have some free time.

Cheers guys
Kev
www.gaugefilm.co.uk

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by CinemanUK » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:23 pm

JeremyC wrote:I dailes in West London have started processing negative Super 8. I've spoken to their general manager, John Thadcross (haven't tried them out yet) and he told me that they have only been processing Super 8 for a month having recently completed the modifications to their equipment but the Super 8 goes throught the same process as their 16 and 35 mm jobs. They have also recenly started doing 16 mm prints and John told me that the UK artist Tacita Dean, who has been very vocal about the loss of analog film facilities in the UK, has started bringing her processing work back from Germany to I - dailies. They way they got their start was by buying Ilabs facilities when they were closed down. They also have a Spirit scanner but are only set up to do first light runs on 8 mm and John told me that Ektachrome looks better than neg when scanned.

He was vague on pricing but I got the impression its expensive but that they are looking at ways to do possible deals e.g. get a price for a bunch of cassettes rather than just sending one.

The website is:http://www.i-dailies.co.uk/index.html.
I got to speak with John at i-dailies about the position in relation to 16mm printing. He explained to me that they had a printer for 35mm film and were able to produce 35mm prints, and they had recently had commenced Super8 processing, but that they were not presently equiped to provide 16mm prints. They are able to process 16mm negative film, but not print it.

He informed me that that having been said, i-dailies were considering investing in a 16mm printer and were aware that there is demand for 16mm printing in the UK but they did not know the extent of the demand. He said that he had been surprised at the number of enquiries he had received in this regard but he needed to try to assess the level and strength of demand. I suggested that I post this message explaining the position and asking those who need this service in the UK to contact him via the web site referred to above so that he can get the best information as to demand for 16mm printing.

So.....here is an opportunity to all those who need 16mm printing in the UK to help a company which is seriously considering providing once again a service in the UK which many of us have in the past said we need. In helping i-dailies in this way, we would be helping ourselves and hopefully convince John that the demand justifies the investment his Company is contemplating.

We have somebody who is listening....

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by aj » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:20 pm

woods01 wrote: Borax will remove remjet. Its in a lot of household cleaners I was able to get in a cleaner actually named "Borax". In my test of processing negative as a reversal I just dipped the film into a bath with about 1 tablespoon of borax per litre of water for 1 minute. After about 30+ seconds the remjet just starts to lift off the film. I then put the film into a water wash before adding the first developer. I didn't try this with a lomo tank. The remjet came off so easily that I don't think you need a complicated process to do it but keeping the spiral clean would be a concern. You would need to do a couple water baths to be safe but I think its doable.

Now the flaw of my test was that I did the removal before developing (and I was doing a cross process), it be worth testing to see if you can leave the remjet on until after development as it would be much easier to view the removal in light.
Hunted a bit for Borax.

It seems most (EU?) pharmacies have stopped selling it because of fear/regulations of health risks. Which is odd as the stuff has been in use since the Babylonic times.
It is not fully banned though. It is still used in gold and glass melting production processes. And what more.

There are a few low-price out of country suppliers on eBay. These cost a bit on shipping of course. I now found a pharmacist who took a special order when it was clear that it was for photographic purposes. 1kg at Euro 9 considering the effort they must spend not too bad :)
Kind regards,

André

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by woods01 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:10 am

Interesting that there are health concerns about it, I'm not aware that it has any other health issues that other cleaning products have. In Canada you can buy it the detergent section of most grocery stores. In my limited research I found that the David Suzuki website had a nice profile of it as a natural cleaner! If you keep processing film, I'd suggest contacting a chemical supplier for it.

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by aj » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:18 am

According to wikipedia it is also an anti-septic which was used in eye-drops and mouth-waters. Or to desinfect internal mouth blisters using droplets. Supposedly it is less poisonous then common seasalt although one better does not swallow a mouth-water :)

One pharmacist, who seemed well informed to me, told me it was no longer considered good for human use. So they abandoned selling the stuff to keep people from brewing their own potions.

A bit like not selling fertilizer to enyone. But farmers still can buy it with completing some paperwork.
Kind regards,

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Re: Kodak Negative Film

Post by richard p. t. » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:35 pm

Hi All,
in my experience, while borax on its own does work, the kodak ecn prebath formula works more efficiently.


Borax 20g
Sodium Sulfate 100g
Sodium Hydroxide 1g

per litre of solution
rt
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au

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