Bolex Malfunction?

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Wade
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Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Wade » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:59 am

Here is some footage I shot a week ago using a Bolex H8 Rex4 modified to DS8 about a decade ago. The camera has never had a problem so far. I'm perplexed how this can happen mid-shot. In fact, I'm not sure what it is. I shot about 150 feet of film prior and 50 feet after. All had no problems except this section. Camera was at 24 FPs, shutter angle wide open, using an electric motor. Any ideas??

https://vimeo.com/54840054
Wade

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cameratech
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by cameratech » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:09 pm

The vertical smearing suggests that the film was moving during exposure. It's possible that the claw, for whatever reason, didn't advance the film for a few frames and the loop got out of shape, causing the take-up sprocket roller to pull on the film while it was being exposed. The loop reforming gear may have reset the loop after a while so that the remaining footage turned out ok.

The other explanation is that the shutter somehow got out of sync, but that seems less likely, especially if it came good again.

Jean-Louis may have a better explanation, but it might be worthwhile sending the camera in for a check-up/service.
Dom Jaeger
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by bolextech » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:29 pm

I have a number of H8RX cameras and none have the loop restoring gear. In any case, it would normally have been removed in a DS8 conversion.

A super8 perf is only 0.9mm wide. The DS8 claw tip is made much narrower then the regular H8 claw and any play in the claw gear or the claw stack may cause the claw to miss the perf.

Check also if the screws securing the sprockets to their shafts are fully tightened.

Jean-Louis
Jean-Louis Seguin
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cameratech
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by cameratech » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:58 am

Thanks Jean-Louis, I wasn't aware that the H8RX cameras (and DS8 conversions) don't have a loop reformer. I wonder then why the footage came good for the last 50 feet?
Dom Jaeger
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by bolextech » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:05 am

I have about five in stock right now, Noen have the loop reforming gear. Most are DS8 but even the unmodified H8s don't have it. The service manual exploded views that I have access to are not clear whether there is one or not in the original H8 design. It is probably possible to retro-fit one if needed. The DS8 definitely cannot have one unless someone redesigned a new gear.

Why did the footage returned to normal afterwards? Maybe it is an intermittent loss of shutter-claw timing if the retaining screws have wiggled loose.

Jean-Louis
Jean-Louis Seguin
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Wade
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Wade » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:17 am

Thanks for your feedback guys. I might add that the distorted shots are on the head of that particular DS8 roll. Then I turned the spool over and shot on the tail side which has no distortion. Then I shot another roll which also had no distortion. My original thought was that I left the pressure plate open. But you really can't close the door if it is open. Or maybe I jostled the turret, but I don't think that would create the vertical streaking. Both these final rolls were ORWO UN54 which I have never used in this particular camera. Maybe there is something about the ORWO which is different from the Kodak emulsions I usually use (and can't get anymore!!). I hasten to add that ORWO is very pretty--I love it. The camera has been rock solid for many years. Perhaps I should send it in for a checkup.
Wade

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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by David M. Leugers » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:18 am

I too like the Orwo stock. Would love to see John Schwind carry it, but not a lot of demand. DS8mm is the only way forward
I think for S-8mm but it might die a premature death unless we shoot a lot of it... the DS8mm cameras are very robust and repairable, don't know how long S-8mm cameras can keep going with all the electronics reaching 30+ years...

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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Mana » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:10 pm

Wade wrote: Both these final rolls were ORWO UN54 which I have never used in this particular camera. Maybe there is something about the ORWO which is different from the Kodak emulsions I usually use (and can't get anymore!!). I hasten to add that ORWO is very pretty--I love it.
Wait, where did you get Orwo in DS8? Is this fresh stock?
R8: Bolex B8

S8: Beaulieu 7008 Pro, Beaulieu 4008zm2 "Jubilee", Leicina Special, Eumig Nautica (24fps)

DS8: Bolex H8 Rex4

S16: Bolex Rex4

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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by aj » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:11 am

Mana wrote:
Wade wrote: Both these final rolls were ORWO UN54 which I have never used in this particular camera. Maybe there is something about the ORWO which is different from the Kodak emulsions I usually use (and can't get anymore!!). I hasten to add that ORWO is very pretty--I love it.
Wait, where did you get Orwo in DS8? Is this fresh stock?
Wittner has it in the catalogue (still). The list got a serious thin out.
I wonder where all the other options went.

They stated clearly that they would keep all in. If they have some material in S8 cartridges then there is supposed to be DS8 rolls too. These are intermediate 'raw' material when going from unperforated material to S8...


http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/katal ... _filmm.php

Maybe ask if they can offer Orwo on long roll of 300 meter off catalogue?
Kind regards,

André

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Wade
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Wade » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:08 am

Mana wrote:
Wait, where did you get Orwo in DS8? Is this fresh stock?

Yes, the DS8 ORWO came from Wittner
Wade

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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Wade » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:57 am

bolextech wrote:Check also if the screws securing the sprockets to their shafts are fully tightened.

Jean-Louis
I did check this straight away as you suggested. All were snug except one I think has a cam out.

So, I did a registration test. It does seem a little jumpy--more so than when I first received it back from Mr. Kurhi who did the DS8 modification nine years ago.

Also, I think Mr. Kurhi's viewfinder adjustment has gone out of whack. He had adjusted the viewfinder so it covered Super8 and the widening of the gate to Max8/SooperDuper8. Now, if I center something, like the registration test board the actual result will be off to the right a bit.

http://vimeo.com/57715943

Does anyone have an idea if the registration can be improved, and how the viewfinder can be re-adjusted?
Wade

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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by kII » Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:01 pm

Hiya, this happened to me a few years ago after i dropped the camera a few feet onto grass. Think you'll find the claw is missing the perfs. Another issue could be the quality of the perfs on the film? Have you exposed any DS8 100D? From experiance over the years, kodaks QC is top notch, if 100d transports ok, then i would possibly suspect the filmstock. Who is splitting the ORWO , wittner or orwo? I ask as i've exposed wittners DS8 50sd velvia a early last year and the registration was awful, ending up trashing both 100ft rolls, the same day of the shoot, ds8 100d was exposed, this was perfect!!

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Wade
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Re: Bolex Malfunction?

Post by Wade » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:40 am

kII wrote: Have you exposed any DS8 100D? From experiance over the years, kodaks QC is top notch, if 100d transports ok, then i would possibly suspect the filmstock.
Yes, actually on the same shoot I was using the ORWO. Only the ORWO had problems. The 100D was fine.
kII wrote:Who is splitting the ORWO , wittner or orwo?
ORWO doesn't make regular 8 or super8. They make the emulsion and I'm sure Wittner is perfing the film stock. If I can get some more E100D I'll do another reg test and see if there is any difference between ORWO and Kodak.

BTW, I had used Fomapan DS8 before. Believe it or not, perfs on one side of the film were a different size from the ones on the otherside. What a joke!! The smaller perfs kept catching on my telecine projector, which uses sprokets, causing the film to twist in the gate. I had to use a stabilization program to make it steady.

So, yes, I agree that Kodak has always had good QC.
Wade

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