Self-processing B/W

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MrJ
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Self-processing B/W

Post by MrJ » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:07 pm

I'm keen to have a go at bucket processing some Kodak B/W reversal super8 (7222). Is there a satisfactory way of doing this, or is it better to process as neg and live with the loss of speed? All the information I have so far found has directed me towards the Kodak TMAX Direct Positive Slide Kit...which, am I right, is no longer available? Any advice greatly received. Mark

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by CinemanUK » Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:45 pm

Eastman Kodak 7222 is not a reversal stock. It is a negative stock - 250ASA (daylight) or 200ASA (Tungsten light). I use it in its 16mm form and quite like it. It produces fairly contrasty and grainy images. I think Kodak Tri-X (7266)(200ASA, daylight) is the reversal B & W stock available from Kodak. I haven't used it and so am unable to comment of its qualities.

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by MrJ » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:30 am

Yes, my mistake...7266 b/w Reversal.

But since you mentioned it, do you process your own 7222? I have a couple hundred feet of 16mm...and also plan to hand process.

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by richard p. t. » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:50 am

hello MrJ,
you do realise that bucket processing will give you all sorts of scratches and marks? Many people quite like that, and it is the classic (modern) 'hand processed' look.
Yes, there are more processing steps with the reversal process. In general, however, and putting bucket processing to one side, it is much easier to get good (perfect) results with reversal processing than it is with negative processing. Yes, the neg process is only a few steps: Dev, wash, Fix, wash, Photoflo, dry. However the difficulty with neg is getting even development such that the image doesn't pulse all over the place. This is the fault of adgitation. But even in a LOMO spiral, getting good bw neg is very very difficult. It does depend on what you have shot. If you have shot a lot of single frame material, you don't notice the uneven development. Mind you, if you are doing it in a bucket, the bucket processing defects may also mask the uneven development.
Process reversal using D19 and R9 bleach. There is a lot of mention of this process on this forum, so do a search. Specific questions about the process, however, I am glad to answer.
good luck,
richard
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au

MrJ
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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by MrJ » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:50 pm

Thank you for your advice Richard.

I'm basically trying out various processes to determine a workflow for a longer form project.

I want to try bucket processing, lomo tank (if I can get hold of one), and lab processing and make an informed decision based on aesthetics, work load and, of course, cost.

I have a couple of rolls of 8mm Tri-X 7266 Reversal and a couple of rolls of 16mm Double-X 7222 Negative to test...based on the advice I've received maybe I'll process one roll of each as neg and then one as reversal and see what I get.

Kodak D-11 has been recommended to me on another forum which I'll get hold of. Is there a rule of thumb for calculating developing times when using other developers? I use Paterson AcuLux for my stills work.

Also, if I was to process the reversal as neg is there a preferred developer to make up for the loss of speed.

I will also search the boards for answers...

Thanks again for the help.

Mark

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by richard p. t. » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:59 pm

Hi Mark,
Kodak D11 is a high contrast developer. It is not what you want for negative processing, and is probably too contrasty even for reversal processing. The standard bw neg developer (available in a bag) is D76. You can also get Kodak HC 110. Either of these is fine for neg. Something like D11 you would have to mix up yourself anyway.
D76 is very close to D96 which is the developer Kodak suggest for motion picture negative. D76 was first formulated as a motion picture negaive developer. It is what you should use (it makes sense from a price point of view, as well as being the right kind of developer, and it comes in a bag and is readily available).
Process for 6 minutes in D76 at 20 or 21 degrees. Be mindful of how warm the air is. In winter, use a water jacket for the developer, that sort of thing.
You can push the developer a stop to make up for the loss of speed. Process for 8 minutes.
cheers,
richard
I run Nano Lab - Australia's super8 ektachrome processing service
- visit nanolab.com.au
richard@nanolab.com.au

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by MrJ » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:59 am

Thanks Richard...I'll get cracking and see where I end up.

Really appreciate the advice.

Cheers, Mark

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by woods01 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:16 pm

While I don't have Richard's level of experience I have done a lot of hand processing of B&W over the years. Search the forum for "hand processing" to find endless discussions on it.

I've done more negative processing than reversal and I am quite happy with results, especially with a lomo tank. Reversal processing takes about twice as long and needs more chemistry, some of which requires a bit of effort to mix on your own (R-9 Bleach is not sold in stores, search the forum for more discussion on making it). But I will admit there is nothing like a good Tri-X reversal image, so the results can be worth the effort!

You can use D-19 to make a negative image, it will just have more contrast, and you can use D-76 to do reversal but it will be very flat and is not recommended. Pretty much any developer on the market will give you an image but you will get sligtlydifferent results, still photographers tend to have their favorite and swear by it. Don't be afraid to try others out once you've done a few rolls.

Don't be afraid of making a test strip out of the last few feet of your roll. If you can't bare to loose any precious frames then I recommend that you shoot a full roll of tri-x on a subject where you're bang on your exposure shoot a human face or a grey scale chart if you've got one, or put a piece of white paper or a 18% grey card. (Just something that you can easily remember what it is). And then save this roll in your freezer. When your ready to process you can then pull out a few feet from this test cartridge and process it to make sure your times, chemistry strength and temperature are good.

Good luck!

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by Nigel » Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:49 pm

I just dusted off the G3 tank to process a few rolls myself.

Very good results with D11, R9 Bleach, Sodium Sulfite, D76 as well as D76 for negative only processing but do find that higher contrast would be nice.

Hope it works out.

Good Luck

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by MrJ » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:48 pm

Thanks for all the feedback. I've now bucket processed a roll of BW reversal as neg and am very pleased with the results. I will continue to experiment and now doing research into the best/most cost effective way to TK.

Just out of interest...G3 tank?

Cheers

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sciolist
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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by sciolist » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:02 pm

MrJ wrote:Thanks for all the feedback. I've now bucket processed a roll of BW reversal as neg and am very pleased with the results. I will continue to experiment and now doing research into the best/most cost effective way to TK.

Just out of interest...G3 tank?

Cheers
The G3 tank made by Morse for the military and copied by others (like Arkay) appears regularly at eBay (see http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-MORSE-I ... 20c96657d8).

How are you drying the film you've processed?

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by Andreas Wideroe » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:03 pm

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by Mmechanic » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:21 pm

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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by wahiba » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:20 am

If like me it is mainly to see if an old camera works then negative processing is fine. DIY telecine with a projector and camcorder works OK and naturally the computer editing does the reversing.

I have manage Tri-X and Plus-X OK in a Lomo tank.

The most basic method I have seen described is an open rectangular frame. Film is wrapped around and then developed in a film print developing tray. There were once obviously commercial frames, but I have never seen one.

Drums and frames were also used but were more suited to a lab than the bathroom! I suspect the frame system was used for processing in the 'field'. Possibly with high speed cameras and photo finishes.
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Re: Self-processing B/W

Post by Pj » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:11 am

I started processing my films to check stock and my cameras and have processed mainly colour reversal E6 as I wasn't keen on waiting for weeks to see my Super 8. I wanted perfect results so I started by using the small automatic Jobo processor [ATL 1500] and made a special rack for it, the unique thing about my rack is that it has little indents machined into it so that as the film is wound on it sits comfortably and doesn't slip during processing. I use the CPE 2 too which is a simple processor, I find it's much easier and now I'm using the larger ATL 2, these machines weren't designed for Super 8 but are very good and increadibly cheap. It has taken a lot of time and experimentation to get perfect results. The results are perfect I have compared my processing to other labs and am very pleased with my results. I re-designed and simplified my rack to use the CPE 2 and the ATL 2 these larger machines are better for Super 8, loading film in the simplified racks is so much easier.

http://www.lightbreeze.co.uk/Processing ... ntures.htm

P

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