Digital Bolex

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Digital Bolex

Post by Will2 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:55 pm

One of these Kickstarter ideas looking for $100,000 to build this camera.

So I wonder if these folks have thought about the licensing issues with using this name?

Image

http://kck.st/zRJUgC

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:12 pm

Excellent and valid question, Will. They are obviously utilizing the Bolex name to raise funds without any reference to a licensing agreement.

Here are their specs, i.e. http://www.digitalbolex.com/products/ I find the unsubstantiated color space "spec" highly suspect, i.e. 12 bit – 4:4:4.

Are you going to contact Switzerland? Do they respond to emails?
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Will2 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:45 pm

Honestly, I think they are a lot of smoke and mirrors.

I'd love to see a project like this take off (although Bolex should get their due for licensing), I like the idea of a couple of filmmakers getting together and doing this. However, the engineering involved is extremely difficult (i.e. Ikonoskop) so I'm not sure how they think they can pull it off. I don't know any electrical engineering firms that would design and build this for $100,000.

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:33 pm

Precisely. I am ready to describe this as a fraudulent claim.
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Angus » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:16 pm

From the wikipedia page on Bolex


During the 2012 SXSW Film Festival, Bolex announced the D16, a digital version of their classic H-16 camera, and the first digital cinema camera Bolex has produced. The D16, which shoots RAW image sequences with a sensor size similar to 16mm, will go on sale in Fall of 2012.[1] A kickstarter project is currently underway to enable the production of the camera
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Will2 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:59 pm

Bolex announced
So these guys say they have a signed contract with Bolex International to "oversee" the camera and use their branding.

Update: so they are over $140,000 now.

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by aj » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:19 pm

The website looks nice enough :)

An example to others in super-8 land. Who are still on manually edited HTML with web 1.0 functions.

And plenty seem to read about it here and start linking to the site for themselves.
As happens to other first shows here who become hot topic on other magazine sites elsewhere.

But I would wait for april 1st to pass. :)

How could such a thing be useful, fruitful or affordable.

Maybe we ought to start a S8 cartridge with sensor, memory and battery which will hold near 4000 frames.
As Super-8 as it gets.
Components are so compact these days. At Euro 200 you can have a cigarette box size (anyone still smokes?) HD filming camera with everything built in. So without the lens it should fit a in cartridge I suppose.

Anybody familiar with this:

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by kuparikettu » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:56 pm

For some reason my first reaction was "oh, it's YADIC" -- Yet Another Digital Camera. I really have problems getting interested or inspired by these cameras -- usually they are just the same thing as the another but in different kind of packaging. Nothing new to offer to the actual look of the picture captured or to film making. For a while I thought maybe Sony F65 would push the digital closer to film look, but having seen the first clips up on Vimeo I have to say I'm not convinced -- it just looks the same bland ultra clean video as the others. And if the expensive high-end beast cannot achieve it, the low-end cheap digital for certain won't achieve it. At the moment Alexa is the best the high-end digital can offer, and even then there just is no competition between film and digital, not even then if one compares the two on SD television screen.

There just isn't escaping the fact that film captures the image in a different way to digital, and this fundamental difference is crucial. There's no faking it. Apples won't turn to oranges even if you grow them in size.

I'm so happy I can do my still photography on 35mm film and that my friend is building his own movie laboratory processing unit to offer low cost 16mm and super-8 developing and 2K scanning. Life is good and analog :)

Meanwhile, I hope the Digital Bolex can profit the Bolex company. No need to let all the money go to digital-only people, eh?

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Nicholas Kovats » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:05 pm

Some substantiation regarding the "alleged" vapourware, i.e.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Alistair Stray <alistair.stray@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] digital Bolex - Well, there isnt one.
To: Experimental Film Discussion List <frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>


In the behind the scenes video for shooting  'one small step', which they claim to have shot with the prototype, you can see that their shooting with a Prosilica GX2300 machine vision camera.

http://www.alliedvisiontec.com/uploads/ ... ica-GX.jpg

and from their BTS video, though there are other shots of it in there.

http://img162.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _388lo.jpg
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by grainy » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:21 pm

kuparikettu wrote:... I really have problems getting interested or inspired by these cameras -- usually they are just the same thing as the another but in different kind of packaging. .... There just isn't escaping the fact that film captures the image in a different way to digital, and this fundamental difference is crucial. There's no faking it. Apples won't turn to oranges even if you grow them in size.
I couldn't agree more. It's funny how so many digital camera types want to be "cool" and try to cram their latest whatever into a vintage shell.

It says something about the digital market that they can't think up their own cool casements for the cameras, they have to borrow a retro look and pretend it's somehow like film. "Digital Bolex". What does that even mean?

How about someone comes up with a tube of acrylic paint, but it's in the same package as a vintage oil paint?
Or a tube of lipstick applied to a pig?
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by bakanosaru » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:07 pm

I can understand a little disapproval (this is the "FILMshooting" forum afterall) but what a bunch of killjoys. :|

I think this camera looks great. There isn't that many raw shooting s16 sensor size cameras as far as I know, and only one in production (Ikonoskop DII).

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by richard p. t. » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:23 am

freedom4kids wrote:
http://www.alliedvisiontec.com/uploads/ ... ica-GX.jpg

and from their BTS video, though there are other shots of it in there.

http://img162.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _388lo.jpg
I too had noticed from their promotional video that it was an Allied Vision Technology machine vision camera. Makes sense. This accounts for why this project might be possible, rather than not possible.
Machine vision cameras aren't straight forward to use. I guess part of the benefit of this 'D16' package is that it has overcome some of that difficulty.
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by wado1942 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 5:14 pm

Maybe we ought to start a S8 cartridge with sensor, memory and battery which will hold near 4000 frames.
Now, there's an idea. A drop-in cart replacement for any Super-8 camera might be somewhat useful. You could use a 1440x1080 1/3" image sensor and get pretty close to the framing you'd get from the standard gate. The camera motor would drive a dynamo inside the cart to power the electronics and capture the image on flash memory. That many pixels on a 1/3" CCD would have a pretty crappy dynamic range, though.

From their web site on using the Bolex name: "We're working in partnership with Bolex International, SA. The collaborators on this project are based in Los Angeles, Toronto, China, and Switzerland."
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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by Will2 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 pm

How about something like a dual Super 8 film and digital camera?

Shoots to Super 8 cartridge but also to a digital sensor via a beam splitter that records to compact flash which would also capture digital audio. Then you would have "instant dailies" with audio that you could edit with and then cut in the film once it is processed and transferred. Also figure out a way to flash the film with a start frame or something so sync is easy.

I mean, if these guys can raise $200,000 to do this camera, why not come up with an updated Super 8 or 16mm camera with some modern twists to make it easier? Maybe even interest Kodak in it if they are concentrating on film again.

Maybe just add a memory chip to the Super 8 cartridge for recording audio and metadata that the processor would include with a transferred file.

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Re: Digital Bolex

Post by richard p. t. » Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:35 am

Will2 wrote:How about something like a dual Super 8 film and digital camera?

I mean, if these guys can raise $200,000 to do this camera, why not come up with an updated Super 8 or 16mm camera with some modern twists to make it easier? Maybe even interest Kodak in it if they are concentrating on film again.
.
The so called 'D16' Bolex project is only possible for that sort of money (to the extent that it is) because they are not actually building the camera itself, but rather are using an off-the-shelf single small chip bayer pattern machine vision camera.
Of course, you could choose an existing model of super 8 camera, refurbish it, and put in a video tap and maybe sound recording etc., and call that a new camera...
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