I have made up my mind.

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superadio
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I have made up my mind.

Post by superadio » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:27 pm

Just thought I share with you folks... I have now ordered a new Krasnogorsk 3- 16mm camera from Russia. Many would maybe dissagree. But i have been looking into other 2nd hand cameras, with mixed feelings. There is always a hatch. Something broken, lightmeter, missing battery, Or camera needs double perf film. Or magazine loading. And prices always been high. Yes, I am aware that spring has its limitation, but I am used to hand winding from my 8mm cameras. I think this is problems many new film makers meet when they like to try film. In all formats. Its just that all cameras are old now.

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by beamascope » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:24 pm

My thoughts have always been few if any shots should go longer than a full wind of the camera. I mean I'm not Kubrick for gods sake! :D I've returned to double 8mm for just this reason, too many super 8 cameras have glitchy electronics or obsolete batteries. I also like the build of clockwork cameras and their lack of plastic. I do have a couple super 8 cameras and even just bought some S8 100D so I guess I'm not completely done with super 8. :wink: I've used a 16mm B&H 70DL (I think thats the right model) along with a reliable light meter as was thrilled with the results. The winds on it seemed to last forever.

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by etimh » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:05 pm

One word: Bolex.

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Sasounet
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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by Sasounet » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:03 am

I went through the same process a couple of weeks ago. I came very close to buy a Krasnogorsk 3 (Almost pressed the buy it now button).

I changed my mind when I realized what were my needs... And went for an Arriflex 16SB instead. Not that I don't like clockwork mechanisms (in fact I do like them) but for me, the registration pin and the possibility to rewind the film were most important. Of course the Arri has a lot of other nice features... I projected my first footage just yesterday, and I really don't regret my choice.

I might get a Krasnogorsk 3 someday. In fact I am supposed to go to Russia in the coming weeks so who knows.

Have fun with your Krasnogorsk 3 and please report your experiences here.

François
superadio wrote:Just thought I share with you folks... I have now ordered a new Krasnogorsk 3- 16mm camera from Russia. Many would maybe dissagree. But i have been looking into other 2nd hand cameras, with mixed feelings. There is always a hatch. Something broken, lightmeter, missing battery, Or camera needs double perf film. Or magazine loading. And prices always been high. Yes, I am aware that spring has its limitation, but I am used to hand winding from my 8mm cameras. I think this is problems many new film makers meet when they like to try film. In all formats. Its just that all cameras are old now.
Sasounet

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Tyler
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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by Tyler » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:23 am

I owned a K-3 once and just couldn't get it to work right. I ran one roll of test footage and it came back messed up. Not due to a light leak or anything. The camera just wouldn't keep the loop before and after the pressure plate. I kept trying to adjust it and run test film though it to try and fix the problem. But, I found no way to fix it at all. Maybe it was just the one I had. Right now I have an Arri SR16 that is converted to super 16mm, so I'm pretty good. I would love to find a K-3 that was super 16 and was reliable.

Hope yours ends up working out okay.

Post film results.

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by David M. Leugers » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:13 am

The K-3 is one bizarre 16mm film camera to my mind. I used to own one so my comments are based on my experiences, your mileage may vary... There seems to be a lot of promise as you hold one. Solidly mounted zoom lens with nice TTL viewfinder and even auto exposure (if working). You notice the wind crank handle takes an inordinate amount of effort compared to other spring wound cameras. Then you open it up and try to thread a roll of film. The auto threading mechanism was made in a toy factory. Best to remove it to allow manual threading. Even then, the unbelievably bad design of the sprockets and gate are hard to overly criticize. While it is possible to get great results with a K-3, I could never be entirely confident of that fact. It is the only 16mm camera I have ever shot film with that I can say that. I have shot thousands of feet of 16mm film through cameras from the lowly Keystone, B+H 70 series, Bolex, Auricon, and Arri cameras with consistently great results. If the K-3 had the B=H or Bolex copy of the film transport and gate it would be a tremendous value, but as it is, I think it is a interesting but flawed camera unable to be relied upon for any serious filming. To me, shooting a roll of 16mm film of anything is a serious filming effort. :) Best of luck, maybe you will get a good copy of the K-3 is there is such a thing.

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superadio
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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by superadio » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:02 pm

Thanks for share upinions and experience. I have done some research, and I have filmed some rolls with the Krasnogorsk Polyautomat 16, which has same mechanism, and gate as the K3. But uses magazine. I was, and still is happy with that camera. But too much work with respool, and loading. Thats the main reason I was searching other camera.

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by Andreas Wideroe » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:15 pm

I'm very happy with my $99 or was it $199 K3 camera. I've had it for 6-7 years now and I've shot some really nice footage with it. It works well for normal shooting and it's great to have a wind up camera. However, it doesn't work for timelapse because you would get light leaking in through the shutter.

Great camera and worth every cent.

/Andreas
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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by Will2 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:35 pm

K-3 was my first venture into 16mm as well.

Here's what I went through (money-wise) on the camera:

$179 "New" old stock
$200 Modified to remove film guides and widen gate to S16
$130 Widened view finder to actually see the full S16
$89 New mount to re-center lens for proper S16
$150 "Laserbrighten" from Bernie O'Doherty for much brighter viewfinder
$400 Several beautiful M42 Pentax Lenses
$100 Hard case

I shot about 1000 feet with this camera and realized I was missing shots because I was winding. Not that any one shot was more than a wind, I was just busy winding while film worthy things were going on.

So I picked up a Scoopic MS, had it widened to Ultra 16 and have been LOVING IT ever since. Easier to load, meter is spot on and never have to wind a camera again. Plus the lens is excellent as many colorists have commented on it while in session. One asked me which Ultra Prime I was using. It was just the Scoopic MS in the middle F-stop range.

If you'd like to make me an offer on that K3 it's just sitting around snug in it's Pelican case, waiting to be used. I still have the original case (looks like an old Doctor's bag) and various useless things that come with it (like cheap plastic daylight spools.)

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by beamascope » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:00 pm

Good point about winding while you'd like to be shooting. I guess it depends on if you're shooting what's happening or shooting what you make happen. I'd imagine the guys using B&H 70s in WWII and Vietnam couldn't wait for the camera to wind down so they could hide and wind!

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Re: I have made up my mind.

Post by unsanity » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:27 am

Yes, I made up my mind too.
I've been re-loading S8 cartridges with b/w super double 8 film that I split first. I develop it myself, all to cut costs and have fun. A problem has been lots of dust and scratchy film.
I have a Russian ds8 camera so I made a spool to develop 10 meters of 16mm film, split it after drying and got much cleaner results. A vast improvement.
I also have an old Victor 16mm camera and managed to get a new looking 1992 Krasnogorsk-3 for 75 euros, the exposure meter works as well. I also now have a Pathe DS8/BTL. I still have to test all three cameras but have a fridge full of b/w film waiting to go.
In the meantime I have also finished building a 30 meter 16mm developing tank.
Unfortunately I am very sick at the moment, have concentration problems and what with the short winter days will have to wait to test the cameras and tank.
I must admit I was fed up with jamming S8 carts, not only my self loads but also two 100D carts. I also prefer clockwork and not having to compensate exposures with a hand held meter and fifteen element zoom lenses and other light absorbing interferences.

Julian.

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