Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

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supa8
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Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:18 pm

Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by supa8 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:05 pm

Hi
Has anybody pulled or pushed colour reversal (64T or 100D) that much with success before?
My friend shot some 100D with a Canon 310XL and activated the neutral density filter (red lever on top of the camera) by mistake.
From what I've read, it will overexpose the film by 4 stops.

The 100D film was shot in daylight (with the 310xl's daylight filter switch on daylight) so at least he did that right.

How much can he successfully correct that during the processing stage?
The footage will then be telecined in Full HD with a Sniper HD so there may be a bit more margin again.

On another camera (Canon 814 AZE), my friend metered Vision 500 with an external lightmetre (for 500asa). Will that be ok, or should he have overexposed a bit (as the built-in lightmetre would have done through Kodak's notching settings)?
Thanks for your help.

David M. Leugers
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Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by David M. Leugers » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:52 am

I'm not saying I have the answers, but you should stop and really think about what has been done and what effect it will have on the film. First off, with E100D it is a daylight balanced film which requires NO filter when shooting in daylight. By placing the camera's filter selection switch to "daylight" inserts an 85 filter to convert the normally tungsten based film for shooting in daylight. So with E100D you want to leave the filter OUT so you should have had the filter selection to indoors and NOT "daylight". So you have exposed the film with a filter in place which will give you funky colors (maybe can fix in transfer) and reduce the F stop required for proper exposure. This is a good thing with the on-the-high-side speed of E100D when shooting in daylight. I have never had the Canon you used, but I gather that the neutral density filter will reduce the amount of light reaching the film by whatever the filter is rated at. The auto exposure TTL system will automatically account for both the neutral density and the daylight filter being in place. Based on what you have said, you probably have properly exposed film with funny colors if you process normally. I have personally pushed processed E100D one stop (200 ASA) with good results. One thing, if your camera used an ASA of 40 instead of the true speed of 100 ASA for E100D, then you will need to pull process one stop.

supa8
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:18 pm

Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by supa8 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:02 pm

Thanks for your answer.
You have some valid points there but the build of the Canon 310XL is different from most other cameras.

1- Regarding the daylight filter point, I would say that it isn't a problem, given that the cartridge design of the 100D (no filter notch at the bottom of the cartridge) actually disables the built-in 85 filter of the camera.
However, it is necessary to set the camera to daylight when using 100D with most cameras in order to make them meter for 100asa (instead of 160asa, should the filter button be set to tungsten, therefore not allowing the cartridge to disable/push in the daylight filter pin)

2- Regarding the neutral density filter, you are right by saying that using a neutral density filter would be handy in very bright situations, in order to attain mid-range f-stops and have more depth of field. However, the Canon 310XL is not designed like most other super8 cameras, in that sense that the light in not measured through the lens (TTL) but through a separate sensor above the lens.
By pulling the red lever (4x ND filter) that literally reduces the amount of light coming into that sensor, my friend literally overexposed everything. Because the system isn't TTL, he should then have screwed in a 4x ND filter over the lens in order to compensate for the neutral density filter being set on the lightmeter.

What I'm trying to find out, is: by how much can I get away pull processing if there was a 4x ND filter on the lightmetre?
It seems pretty extreme to me. I wish my friend had shot Negative film as it has more latitude than color reversal.

Lunar07
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Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by Lunar07 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:24 pm

Based on my experience with reversal film - no pull processing can save this film. Do not waste money on it unless probably to see how it looks like. Also please note that since the ND has a factor of 4X, your friend overexposed by 2 F Stops (not 4). Even with the 2 F Stops it is quite extreme. If he wants to see how it will look like pull processed he should inform the lab to pull process by 2 stops not 4.

Lunar07
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Location: Austin, Texas

Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by Lunar07 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:25 pm

Based on my experience with reversal film - no pull processing can save this film. Do not waste money on it unless probably to see how it looks like. Also please note that since the ND has a factor of 4X (based on what you mention in the post), your friend overexposed by 2 F Stops (not 4). Even with the 2 F Stops it is quite extreme. If he wants to see how it will look like pull processed he should inform the lab to pull process by 2 stops not 4.

supa8
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:18 pm

Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by supa8 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:13 am

Ok thanks for that. I thought 4x meant 4 stops.
We re gonna have to give it a go because it was an important shoot as part of a doco series.
It doesn't matter if the footage is very overexposed or looks abstract. As long as we can recognize some sort of image, it should be ok.
There were a few rolls so we may try and pull one @2stops first, then maybe another one at 1 stop or so.

David M. Leugers
Posts: 1616
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 12:42 am

Re: Pull Processing 100D by 4 f.stops - Possible?

Post by David M. Leugers » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:11 am

I found an online copy of the manual for this camera and now I understand what you guys are saying. The film was overexposed two stops. Maybe more if the exposure setting seen in the viewfinder while filming was pegged at the highest stop (too much sunlight even with the lens closed down all the way). Personally I would try a two stop pull process and see what you get. Many wonderful shots have come about due to accidents. Good luck.

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