Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

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71er
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Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by 71er » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:07 am

I thought it would be good to start a thread with the experience of forum members with Ektachrome 100D in their cameras and what settings are needed to get the exposure right.
Here is my contribution:

Eumig Mini: can not read E100D
Eumig Mini 3 (zoom reflex, servofocus and servofocus PMA): filter key needs to be put in and camera run on the setting "+" (backlight correction)
Zeiss Ikon Moviflex (S8, MS8): reads E100D right without any adjustments

Maybe when enough data has been collected a list like there was for E64T could be generated including our experiences.
Alex

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by jpolzfuss » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:59 am

Hi,

please update this article:
http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Super_8 ... ld_cameras

Thanks,
Jörg
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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Muckymuck » Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:05 pm

There was an earlier thread about which cameras will expose 100D correctly. It was around the time that Wittner launched their 100D. At the time, this was actually notched 64D/100T.

Unfortunately the search facility does not allow me to find the thread easily.

The gist of it was as follows. There were a number of different camera types.

1. Manual exposure cameras (e.g. Boots Comet, Kodak Instamatic M2) and those with auto exposure but manual ISO settings (Beaulieus, Zenit Quarz etc)

2. Cameras that metered only for 40T/25D tungsten balanced films (e.g. the Kodak instamatics).

THEN (READ SLOWLY...)

3. Around 1970 onwards there were a range of cameras that could take many film speeds. These also had a lower cartridge notch reader to tell whether the film in the camera was of the daylight type (no filter notch) or the tungsten type (filter notch). These included the Eumig Viennettes, the Sankyo CM's, GAF 735/8s, Braun Nizos (compact ones can only do 25, 40, 100, 160, but can handle 100D correctly).

These cameras also had a switch, key or screw plug for putting the 85 filter in/out.

When the filter was NOT put "out" by the switch, key or screw plug the camera was in "daylight shooting" mode. Inserting a daylight notched cartridge into these cameras would not change the meter reading, but would automatically put the filter out. Inserting a tungsten balanced film would leave the filter in place.

E.g. With filter switch/screw/key set to daylight:

Load 100D notched cartridge = 100 ISO metering - filter out.
Load 160T notched cartridge = 100 ISO metering - filter in.

These cameras are referred to in the earlier posts as "D" type cameras.

The only way these cameras would meter for the tungsten speed with the filter OUT would be to use the switch/key/screw to put the camera in tungsten mode.

E.g. With filter switch/screw/key set to tungsten:

Load 160T notched film cartridge = 160 ISO - filter out.

HOWEVER

4. Kodak then came up with a 160 ISO (Type G) film which was supposedly usable in both daylight and tungsten without ANY filtration at all. These films had no lower filter notch. This was around the time of the XL shutter cameras.

By this time, Super 8 film speeds had more or less been standardised as ALL TUNGSTEN BALANCED 40T (25D with filter) and 160T (100D with filter) films.

As such, there was no "need" for new cameras to recognise daylight balanced films by way of a notch. Some cameras simply had no notch reader at all, only a daylight/tungsten switch which had the following settings:

40 ISO (tungsten setting - filter out) 25 ISO (daylight setting - filter in)
160 ISO (tungsten setting - filter out) 100 ISO (daylight setting- filter in)

E.g. the later Bauer cameras.

Sometimes, cameras WOULD have a lower notch reader. This simply had the same effect as the switch. It was essentially an idiot-proofing device so that when someone inserted a (notchless) Type G film into the camera, it would put the filter out and set the camera to 160 ISO, regardless of whether or not the switch was set to daylight or tungsten. These cameras included the Sankyo EM-XL series and most XL consumer cameras of the late 70s and early 80s.

These cameras were referred to as "Type G" cameras in the previous postings.

So the short answer is that the "newer" consumer-oriented Super 8 cameras may have problems with 100D, however most cameras from the early to mid 70s, plus higher end cameras should not have a problem with it.

To make matters worse, some of the "G" type cameras still stated inside the film compartment that they could take 25 or 100 speed "daylight" films. This actually meant "with filter" (i.e. 40T or 160T films).

With these cameras, the only way to test it is this - check the meter reading with the camera set to daylight mode via the filter switch/key/screw.
THEN
Push the notch reader in with your finger. This will put the filter out. If the meter reading doesn't change, congratulations- you have a D type camera. If it does change by approx 2/3 stop, then you have a G type camera.

What is certain is that there are FAR more cameras which can read 100D correctly than could read 64T. In the early to mid 70s, there were many many cameras that could correctly read 25, 40, 100 and 160 ISO films, whether daylight or tungsten balanced.

As such, the novice user picking up an old but working camera is more likely to just be able to put in a cartridge of 100D and get correctly exposed results than they would with 64T.

I remember researching this one quite deeply when Wittner released 100D, so any questions and I'll try to answer them.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by livio » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:29 am

Excellent Muckymuck!
It's funny how in the past all the threads about cartridge notching would set violent flames on, so I always avoided to post on it...
Your post is very exaustive and correct. Only one thing I disagree: I think that "compact" "Nizos" (I have a Nizo 148) don't fall in the "smart" category (the ones you put in the number "3"), but in the "idiot proof category" (they are "type G" camera): the camera HAS a lower notch reader, but inside the film compartment my Nizo states: 40 or 160 ASA Tungsten, 25 or 100 ASA Daylight, 40 or 160 ASA B/W that is quite confusing: a B/W stock it's actually a daylight stock.
Actually there's no difference between a new E100D cartridge and a Plus-x cartridge. Nizo 148 exposes Plus-x film at EI 160, exactly like it exposes a Tri-x film. And, unluckyly, it would expose a E100D the same way too.
Which, for Plus-x, IMHO wasn't that bad, because I like more Plus-x exposed this way and pushed processed 2/3 stops rather than at the nominal rating of 100 ISO, but should be a problem with the new E100D stock.
BTW it's actually a pity that Kodak will discontinue Plus-x, but it's a bill I'm quite pleased to pay in change of the new E100D that's really a great stock. In the last years I actually didn't use Plus-x that much, being very satisfied with Tri-x stock which I process myself, managing to keep grain quite low.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Shanec8mm » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:22 pm

SO if I want to use the new 100D in my Minolta Autopak 8 D-6 I will need to use a ND filter? It seems there are conflicting reports about this camera. Inside the film door chamber 100 is listed as a film speed that this camera will read. It shows the 100 speed for both daylight and tungsten. Now there is no lower pin or button as some have mentioned. So I would assume this camera will read the new film as 160ASA? So if I was to screw in the filter retracting screw and place a ND filter on the taking lens will my exposures come out pretty close? I would assume a Nd 0.8 would do the job? Any help is appreciated.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by gahoona » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:56 pm

That camera is fine for 100d.It reads 100 daylight and 100 tungsten.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Shanec8mm » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:03 am

gahoona wrote:That camera is fine for 100d.It reads 100 daylight and 100 tungsten.
Thanks for the reply. So I would assume all I need to do is put in the filter retracting screw, and the film cartridge and I'm all set? No ND filter needed at say the beach?

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Shanec8mm » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:05 am

PS: It does say in the manual to use the filter retracting screw when using daylight film. So I guess this would make sense.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by jpolzfuss » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:50 am

Shanec8mm wrote:No ND filter needed at say the beach?
Yes, it looks like most cameras will need "sun glasses" (ND filters) in such situations:

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm says:
EV = 16 (Subjects in bright daylight on sand or snow.)
hence -for 100ASA- the slowest shutter-speed in that list is 1/60 sec at f/32...

... however most s8-cameras will have f/16 or f/22 as "f-stop with the largest number = smallest opening" (at f/16 or f/22 and EV=16 the table recommends a shutter-speed of 1/250 sec or 1/125 sec)
... and most non-XL-s8-cameras will have a fixed shutter speed of more or less 1/36 sec at 18fps or 1/48 sec at 24fps.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Shanec8mm » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:30 am

jpolzfuss wrote:
Shanec8mm wrote:No ND filter needed at say the beach?
Yes, it looks like most cameras will need "sun glasses" (ND filters) in such situations:

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm says:
EV = 16 (Subjects in bright daylight on sand or snow.)
hence -for 100ASA- the slowest shutter-speed in that list is 1/60 sec at f/32...

... however most s8-cameras will have f/16 or f/22 as "f-stop with the largest number = smallest opening" (at f/16 or f/22 and EV=16 the table recommends a shutter-speed of 1/250 sec or 1/125 sec)
... and most non-XL-s8-cameras will have a fixed shutter speed of more or less 1/36 sec at 18fps or 1/48 sec at 24fps.

Jörg
According to my manual the Minolta D-6 can meter down to F45. A dot is represented by this to the right of F32. So I would think that a ND filter would be overkill at the beach? Maybe I would be safe just letting the camera do the deciding. The auto exposure on my Minolta is very accurate and has never given a false reading.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by MIKI-814 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:09 am

Shanec8mm wrote:
jpolzfuss wrote:
Shanec8mm wrote:No ND filter needed at say the beach?
Yes, it looks like most cameras will need "sun glasses" (ND filters) in such situations:

http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm says:
EV = 16 (Subjects in bright daylight on sand or snow.)
hence -for 100ASA- the slowest shutter-speed in that list is 1/60 sec at f/32...

... however most s8-cameras will have f/16 or f/22 as "f-stop with the largest number = smallest opening" (at f/16 or f/22 and EV=16 the table recommends a shutter-speed of 1/250 sec or 1/125 sec)
... and most non-XL-s8-cameras will have a fixed shutter speed of more or less 1/36 sec at 18fps or 1/48 sec at 24fps.

Jörg
According to my manual the Minolta D-6 can meter down to F45. A dot is represented by this to the right of F32. So I would think that a ND filter would be overkill at the beach? Maybe I would be safe just letting the camera do the deciding. The auto exposure on my Minolta is very accurate and has never given a false reading.
Do buy a ND filter anyway. Optics always give better images in the medium values (5.6 - 8 ) rather than in the limits, and 45 is extremely closed...

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Shanec8mm » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:14 pm

Thanks for the advice. Should I use the ND filter full time or only during bright conditions at the beach, etc? Also what number ND filter would work best with this film? Thanks!

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by MIKI-814 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:22 pm

Shanec8mm wrote:Thanks for the advice. Should I use the ND filter full time or only during bright conditions at the beach, etc?
Depends on creative reasons... generally, use it whenever you want to reduce light, open diaphragm and reduce "depth of field". I would always avoid that 45... unless what you're searching for is having all distances in focus.
Shanec8mm wrote:Also what number ND filter would work best with this film? Thanks!
A ND3 filter reduces light by 1 stop, ND6 2 stops and ND9 3 stops.

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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by RichardB » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:16 am

814XL-S worked fine for me, although in a bright new york day it was really difficult avoiding diffraction - I agree that an ND filter is a must have item now for Super 8 users.
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Re: Necessary settings for Ektachrome 100D in camera ...

Post by Gaf65Loiz » Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:24 pm

Sorry if I'm re-treading old ground, but I have a Gaf 65, automatic exposure, really basic, no switches other than the shoot trigger. No daylight or tungsten light switch, no overdie features etc. There is an automatic aoom though!

I've just bought some Ektachrome 100D, put it in my camera, and the exposure metre is just reading as red (i don't quite know the term - i'm guessing its either over or underexposed), however, the Kodak website states that automatic Super 8s should read Ektachrome 100D fine - am I to just carry on shooting, or is it going to be a very expensive experiment resulting in a blank 4 minute film?

The light metre appears as a red quarter circle at the top left hand corner of the viewfinder, and the full quarter is just staying in a fixed position. Prior to me inserting the film, the metre swung above or below depending on whether you directed the camera at extreme brightness or darkness...am i to presume this fixed position is a good sign?

I'm presuming not....hmmmm....any ideas?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Lorcan

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