Is the end near?

Forum covering all aspects of small gauge cinematography! This is the main discussion forum.

Moderator: Andreas Wideroe

mauka
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:46 pm

Re: Is the end near?

Post by mauka » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:13 am

MovieStuff wrote:
reflex wrote:My apologies, too. It was condescending to label you a collector.
Ah, but how about if we consider him a "film connoisseur"? Sounds very French, no? Someone that doesn't necessarily make films but appreciates the nice bouquet of a vintage '66 Kodachrome II or the grainy undertones of a '74 Tri-X. Or perhaps the low key rumblings of the very rare Ektachrome 40 sound stock as it purrs through an Elmo 1012S? Indeed, one can appreciate film on many levels without actually telling a single story.

Roger
And one can also make a movie without telling a story, or without the intention of telling a story, i.e. structuralist cinema.

We are living exciting times now when thinking about the future of film. I really think that there will always be someone to make and sell film, but the question indeed is: for what cost?

BTW, this interesting link might give some hope to us all: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dark_orang ... 226919391/

User avatar
MIKI-814
Posts: 662
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:53 pm
Real name: Miguel
Location: BILBAO, Basque Country, EU
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by MIKI-814 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:13 pm

MovieStuff wrote:Indeed, one can appreciate film on many levels without actually telling a single story.

Roger
Totally agree...

User avatar
wahiba
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 9:24 am
Real name: David
Location: Keighley, UK
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by wahiba » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:21 pm

Film is an old technology. It is also a relatively simple technology. current technologies can regularly reproduce older technologies. So why not the small scale manufacture of film? Old mechanical cameras are going to be around for a long time. My standard 8 metal cameras are certainly survivng better than electric super 8 machines.
Photography did not kill painting, so why should digital imaging kill film imaging?
Decided not to change web-site, just keep updating. New movies at: http://8mmovies.yolasite.com

User avatar
MIKI-814
Posts: 662
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:53 pm
Real name: Miguel
Location: BILBAO, Basque Country, EU
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by MIKI-814 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:46 pm

wahiba wrote:Photography did not kill painting, so why should digital imaging kill film imaging?
True! Also, did colour photography killed B/W? Not at all!

User avatar
CHAS
Senior member
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 8:38 pm
Real name: Charles Doran
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by CHAS » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:32 am

Juno wrote: Of course, the only reason that Super 8 is still around is for an excuse to recoup losses on some old junk film stock that Kodak has lying around in it's coffers unused. They apparently ran out of the surplus 64T, now if they have any more junk emulsions that they need to cut their losses on, we'll be lucky to get them Just to plop those finicky, plastic, blobs containing photochemical sludge into our antiquated little love machines!
hmmm...that may well be true. I seem to recall the 7240 S8 stock was cut down from the 16mm version back in...'95?

Roster
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2003 12:31 pm
Location: New England

Re: Is the end near?

Post by Roster » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:25 pm

wahiba wrote:Film is an old technology. It is also a relatively simple technology.
And that is its beauty... all it takes is a light source to view the image. No computers, no codecs, no VCR's or DVD decks, just a lowly light bulb if you have electricity, the sky if you don't.
"Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

Will2
Senior member
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:18 am
Real name: Will Montgomery
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by Will2 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:47 pm

This is in the U.S... can someone do a European version to see a comparison?

Cheapest Way I have to Shoot Film and Transfer:

$16 Shoot Regular 8 or Super 8 Reversal
$14 Process at Dwaynes
$10 Transfer at Dwaynes to Quicktime
$5 Shipping
____

$45 for 3 minutes or so.
(31.59 Euro)

No tax since its out of state (no one actually LIVES in Kansas do they?) Maybe add some more for initial shipping of the film to you.

Of course this isn't the absolute best quality but if we're trying to shoot more film its just fine. You can always re-transfer if something comes out great.

jaxshooter
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:52 pm
Real name: Marty Hamrick
Location: Windsor, Ontario

Re: Is the end near?

Post by jaxshooter » Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:47 am

reflex wrote:
But what if you are interested primarily in the medium, and not necessarily the message?
Then you're a collector, not a filmmaker.

No,it could make you a DP and not a director. I've always been more interested in making the image than the genre or story. It really mattered not to me if I worked on a comercial, movie , doc or TV news assignment as long as I was the one in charge of the image. Now being intimate with the story and understanding the director's vision and how to translate that into light, shadow composition,camera angles, movement and screen direction is essential to performing that task.

I've taken a sit on the sideline and watch mode. I'll be happy to DP anyone's film project, but I can't see myself producing one.
Marty Hamrick

Cinematographer

Windsor, Ontario

mr8mm
Posts: 483
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 7:18 pm
Real name: john schwind
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by mr8mm » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:24 am

All S8 comes from 16mm stock. Any 16mm stock can in theory be S8 or DS8. Kodak slits film to 16mm then perforates as either 16mm, R8 or DS8. DS8 is then slit as S8 and loaded into a S8 cartridge and boxed. In the old days I believe S8 was slit as a separate stock from wider widths but no more. Everything begins life as 16mm. Well not 35mm.

I see some financial guru is predicting this is the year Kodak will disappear as a company. The curious thing is that the film division seems to be the only one showing a profit.

J.S.

Will2
Senior member
Posts: 1941
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:18 am
Real name: Will Montgomery
Location: Dallas, TX
Contact:

Re: Is the end near?

Post by Will2 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:47 am

If that is true that the film division is profitable then then film division will continue in one form or another. The vogue thing right now is pre-packaged bankruptcy where everything is planned out before hand and basically they wipe a ton of debt out and start over after pissing off a bunch of unsecured creditors.

In Kodak's case they could either sell off the film division or sell everything else off and go back to just film. Either way, some company will still be making it with Kodak's patents... they're too valuable.

User avatar
CineGuerrilha
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:14 pm

Re: Is the end near?

Post by CineGuerrilha » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:27 pm

Btw, just a reminder that while some film emulsions die, others are born:

orwo UN54- 100 iso, can be developed either neg or reversal. Wittner sells it in any dreamable format (even 9.5mm)

fomapan R100

'Cinevia' (the fuli velvia 50)

About the cheapest way of shooting film:

Expired film from ebay: 5 USD
Home processing: 5 USD in material
Transfer: none finish in s8 film

10USD for 5 minutes

ekoe
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:16 pm
Real name: Edward Koehler
Location: London, UK

Re: Is the end near?

Post by ekoe » Sat Jan 02, 2010 6:52 pm

Ugh, this topic again. How depressing.

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet because I can't be brought to read three pages of this topic, but you need to read the article Wittner-Cinetec wrote regarding their visit to Kodak's Colorado production facility.

Here it is:
http://www.wittner-cinetec.com/info/kodak/kodak-en.php

User avatar
etimh
Senior member
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:15 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Is the end near?

Post by etimh » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:51 pm

ekoe wrote:I don't know if anyone has posted this yet because I can't be brought to read three pages of this topic, but you need to read the article Wittner-Cinetec wrote regarding their visit to Kodak's Colorado production facility.

Here it is:
http://www.wittner-cinetec.com/info/kodak/kodak-en.php
That's a good read--never saw it. Thanks for posting the link, ekoe.

I clicked on one of the internal links to another of their "reports," but it was in German--do you know if they regularly publish these in English, or was this Kodak visit a "special report" for a wider audience?

I'd like to read a regular blog from these guys if it was available in English.

Tim
FilmAid International
http://www.filmaid.org

ekoe
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:16 pm
Real name: Edward Koehler
Location: London, UK

Re: Is the end near?

Post by ekoe » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:03 pm

I think it was a special article. Their English translation is very good, though.
As for the articles in German, I've good experiences with 'babelfish'. Although some grammar may not translate perfectly, the translation is understandable and it works well even with photographic terms or camera parts like 'viewfinder' or 'shutter release button'.
Worth a try and I've learned a good few German terms that way.

Juno
Posts: 326
Joined: Sat May 10, 2003 11:28 pm
Location: S.C. USA

Re: Is the end near?

Post by Juno » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:58 am

mr8mm wrote:All S8 comes from 16mm stock. Any 16mm stock can in theory be S8 or DS8. Kodak slits film to 16mm then perforates as either 16mm, R8 or DS8. e. Everything begins life as 16mm. Well not 35mm.
J.S.
I don't think that is the case with 64t.

Post Reply