Super 8 Silencer?

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BonnutFilmStudio
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Super 8 Silencer?

Post by BonnutFilmStudio » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:16 pm

For those who do live sound with Super 8, how do you eliminate that motor noise from the camera? It's quite noisy in an enclosed room. I've been using a hoody sweatshirt but it's not doing the job and I need to constantly remove it for focal/exposure changes. I know there's foam that is made to absorb the sound and that people use it, I don't know names or where to get it. Does anyone know? Does anyone have a home made solution? My cam is Beaulieu 600S, quiet but not quiet enough and filters on audio software are limited. Short of looping the entire soundtrack, what can be done?

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RichardB
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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by RichardB » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:50 pm

I'm working on making a blimp for my 814XL-S, its probably going to end up as a 2 part box made from thin plywood, packed out inside with foam to dampen the sound. The trick is to minimise any air between the camera and dampening devices, so it will have to be a tight fit. Not sure what foam I'll be using yet, but when I find out what the most appropriate type is I'll let you know.

If you're not dead set on using ambient noise, you could use a shotgun mic which will cut out a lot of the camera noise (provided its not pointed at the camera!), and then record ambient noise after the camera has stopped running - later on mixing the two down to get a stero soundtrack.

I recently managed to fix my BM-70 by banging it on a table (percussive maintenance? :mrgreen: ), so I'll be using that for ambient noise in my movies, recording with it after the filming has finished - using a decent shotgun mic when sync sound is required.
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71er
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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by 71er » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:11 pm

I haven't got very much clue about electronics, but when there is earphones that can automatically blank out the ambient noise shouldn't it also be possible to put a little microphone next to the camera and "subtract" the camera noise from the sound that the main microphone picks up?
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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by Mitch Perkins » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:54 pm

BonnutFilmStudio wrote:For those who do live sound with Super 8, how do you eliminate that motor noise from the camera? It's quite noisy in an enclosed room. I've been using a hoody sweatshirt but it's not doing the job and I need to constantly remove it for focal/exposure changes. I know there's foam that is made to absorb the sound and that people use it, I don't know names or where to get it. Does anyone know? Does anyone have a home made solution? My cam is Beaulieu 600S, quiet but not quiet enough and filters on audio software are limited. Short of looping the entire soundtrack, what can be done?
I have a blimp we used on Sleep Always that you can use/have....pretty darn quiet. Not sure if your camera will fit....

If you make a blimp, remember - airtight is soundtight, doesn't matter how much room there is around the camera.

Best to prelight your indoor set for 360 degree relatively consistent exposure, and set zoom/focus to 15/15 or wide - that way you only have to open the blimp to change carts. Cutaways/closeups can be done separately.

Expect to do some looping regardless, as camera noise will not be your sole irritant, but *always* get production sound; people (actors) make noises/lip movements that are not always words, and you'll be looking at the footage saying "what the heck is he saying?" Always do a sound take right after the camera stops rolling - dialogue and intonation will be fresh in your actors minds.

If/when you do loop, use audio cues (duplicate X 3 with space in between for recording), instead of trying to visually "lipsync" - the audio cues are waaay easier to work with.

HTH,
Mitch

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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by vidwerk » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:35 pm

I am also making a sound barney for my 814XL-S.
I've made a template pattern and my sister who owns her own baby clothing line is going to handle the sewing and stitching.
It will be complete with flaps to access the side controls.
It won't eliminate all the noise, but the plan is to cut out about 60 to 70% of it.

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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by Scotness » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:44 am

RichardB wrote: The trick is to minimise any air between the camera and dampening devices, so it will have to be a tight fit.
That might be true - but I also read in an audio book that if you gave an air cavity between your inner dampening material and your outer one (I guess inner wall or box and outer one) - you dramatically decrease the noise as well -- I assume this is due to decreasing the vibrations being passed on from one to the other.
71er wrote:I haven't got very much clue about electronics, but when there is earphones that can automatically blank out the ambient noise shouldn't it also be possible to put a little microphone next to the camera and "subtract" the camera noise from the sound that the main microphone picks up?
I theory yes - but in practise I think no because the difference in reverb and volume etc just due to the different placement of the mics would make that ineffectual. It'd be interesting ot hear an experiment with it though.

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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by ewanuno » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:24 pm

you could try using phase cancelation to reduce the camera noize.

record an extra track right on the camera,

then in post production, take this extra track, reverse its phase and then mix it with the main audio track. or you could just nudge it forward a few samples.

this is how vocal remover plugins for sound software work, more or less, and sometimes you can get good results.

how well this would work is anybodys guess, you might even make it sound worse.

if you already have recording with too much camera noize you could try to record the camera again and try using that instead of a simultaneous recording.

or maybe you could make something to put over the camera to stop recording the noize in the first place :wink:

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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by christoph » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:18 pm

you could try using phase cancelation to reduce the camera noize.
record an extra track right on the camera,
then in post production, take this extra track, reverse its phase and then mix it with the main audio track. or you could just nudge it forward a few samples.
this is not going to work well because the voice track will have the reverb of the room on top too.
or maybe you could make something to put over the camera to stop recording the noize in the first place
jup, that's an excellent plan ;)
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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by Mr Blackstock » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:56 pm

I built two blimps for two of my cameras for use this summer. I used quite a few materials, and the finished product looks like a camera from the 1920's, but the noise is down almost 98%!

I even filmed a test roll in a typical lounge, 5 feet from the actor, the the sound recording picked up nothing!

I added the link to the pictures below, as i cannot work out how to paste images into the forum, so have a look.

http://mishpics.yolasite.com/super8-blimp-designs.php

Also, the mike i used was a cardioid. A typical uni-directional mike would pick up the camera noise easily.

The picture samples are a link off my main website.
http://www.mishkin.yolasite.com/

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Jim Carlile
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Re: Super 8 Silencer?

Post by Jim Carlile » Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:18 am

Find a good bathmat and use that. Brodsky and Treadway (Little Film) deserve credit for this idea-- they say take the camera to Sears and experiment with rubberized bathmats, then buy one, take it home and cut it up to make a barney to wrap around the camera with tape.

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