beaulieu 4008 zm 4 in half coma. help!

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beaulieu 4008 zm 4 in half coma. help!

Post by Guest » Sat May 03, 2003 5:57 pm

hi i need a resurrection for a little jewel.
i just got a beaulieu 4008 zm4 with a schneider 6-70mm lens on a flea market in France. in excellent condition and kept in its bag but the camera hasn't been used in 12 years and the battery hasn't been charged either apparently. i have charged the battery for 12 hours or so and ran a test.
the automatic zoom + light metre work without any problem, but appart from that, the camera won't run.
I hope it is only because the battery is too weak for the film section to run.
Do you think it there is a chance the camera will run with a new battery?
what about servicing when you are in France? i know there is "cine quartz" in paris, but somebody wrote in a message they were to be avoided. So i am hesitating between "Beaulieu France" and bjorn anderson in Scandinavia. Indeed i am afraid that i would have to pay a fortune for the camera to be revised by beaulieu and Bjorn seems to be very professional and decent in his prices. Anybody has had similar experiences in France?

Another funny thing when i ran my test, when i tried to run the camera in automatic exposure, in noticed that the iris ring on the lens moved much faster than usual. What does that mean?

thanks for your help

ju

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Post by Guest » Sat May 03, 2003 6:54 pm

Beaulieu will sell you a brand new battery, why not contact them? Or you could try Daniel Wittner in Manhiem Germany.

Paul Cotto

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Post by S8 Booster » Sat May 03, 2003 7:14 pm

Alternatively:

Pedro describes how he recelled his "new" 4008 by himself here. Bottom post:

battery for Beaulieu 4008?

R
..tnx for reminding me Michael Lehnert.... or Santo or.... cinematography.com super8 - the forum of Rednex, Wannabees and Pretenders...

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here is stuff from pedro...

Post by ericMartinJarvies » Sat May 03, 2003 10:26 pm

hello,

for starters, you can most likely isolate the problem with your 4008 yourself, providing you have a voltage meter, and a few micro tools and some patience needd to take apart the camera, either just the one side of the body, or both sides. either way, it is all possible to DIY, and i will provide the basic instructions for you. but first, read the following docs that were created by pedro. the first one is instructions how to make a battery. the second is basic voltage meter testing instructions, which show a picture of my particular voltage meter(any will do), as well as some 4008 transistors. i emailed these photos to pedro and he then took them and turned them into the final tutorial which is the doc itself. the last one is a list of pedros products he has made. all said, very useful and hats off to pedro ... nice guy, always willing to help, and always provides accurate and detailed information ... i'm a pedro fan, can't you tell??!!

http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/ima ... erpack.pdf
http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/images/measurng.pdf
http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/ima ... celist.doc

ok, regarding instructions on how to remove your camera body facplate to access the motor to perform a volate test to determine if the motor is good or bad.

1. remove the left screw directly under and to the left of the viwfinder/dioptre.

2. loosen the micro-thread screw on the ground-glass knob, then remove the knob. under the knob, you will notice a spanner wrench hole pattern flat nut(two holes, one at 12:00 o'clock and another at 6:00 o'clock). this nut holds the body to the inside structure. if you have a spanner wrench, use it. otherwise, pointy tweesers will work providing they are strong enough and small enough to fit into the holes. if you are not able to untighten, spray a little wd-40 onto it and work it back and forth applying pressure accoridngly, but not too much as the tweesers may bend, thus coming out of hte holes and scratching your camera.

3. remove the left side of the camera body(left side is the same side as the controls, not the film bay) by gently pulling it apart from the right side.

ok, so now you ave access to the one side of the camera to access the motor, etc. you may browse the hunreds of images i have posted on my website ...starting with the following image number:
http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/images/dsc01579.jpg

take note, simply enter a new image number into your brower's address field(e.g.- dsc01579.jpg, dsc01580.jpg, dsc01581.jpg, dsc01700.jpg, etc up to 2000.)

should you have specific questions, please post them here and i will provide detailed instructions.

http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/images/dsc02026.jpg
http://www.earthid.org/howto/4008zm/images/dsc02027.jpg
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661

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Post by ericMartinJarvies » Sat May 03, 2003 10:41 pm

oh, i forgot to mention, if you are able to operate the auto iris/reglo componants, as well as the test the light meter, you should run the following test to make certain everythign is working as it should. because the on-camera asa knob, and fps knob, communicate with the lens by way of the auto reglo system, you ned to make sure these are working correctly with one another, thus providing accurate readings as seen through the viewfinder/dioptre by way of the internal light meter needle.

1. turn the setting knob to 'test'
2. press the palm trigger, then the release button undr the lens, then look through the viewfinder, if the internal light meter needle is above the middle mark, the battry is properly charged. if it is in the middle of the needle slot, or below, then it is not. asuming it is:
3. move the knob to auto
4. press the palm trigger and the release button, and while looking through the viwfinder/dioptre, move/point the camera into the light and see if the light meter moves to the center, move into a shaded area and look for the same thing. perfrom this test without looking through the viewfinder/dioptre, and instead watch the iris ring on the lans and see if it moves as you point the camera into direct light and move it into shady/dark areas. if the auto iris is adjusting correctly according to the light source, then good thing. take and preform this using various on-camera asa settings and look for the meter raising or dropping, which is a good thing ... it tells you the componants are working corrctly. not exactly, but correctly. to determine exactly, you will need to shot a roll of film testing each setting, and if you can test against a handheld spot meter, even better. write all this info dow and when you get your film back, determine the nuances of your specific camera. or, send the camera in and have those componants adjusted professionally and forego the film test(i prefer the film test, so you aquant yourself properly with your camera, and know how it works exactly). all of which have adjustments located on the right of the camera internals/guts. the proper adjustments are located i nthe bealieu service/repair manual btw.

good luck.
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661

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Post by supa8 » Sat May 03, 2003 11:09 pm

hi eric
thanks for your email.
that's great info
i had actually printed most of your theses on how to open a beaulieu 4008, but i am not too sure about doing it myself.
i've been facing the dilemma of opening it or not for the last couple of hours but have decided i wouldn't as it just sounds too risky for me.
Indeed, every time i have attempted, and even very carefully to open a super 8, i always did a mess. (+ i have no tools, no voltage metre, just big fat screw drivers)
So what I think i am going to do is :
-either go to paris if i get some time this month and go to a shop in order to try a battery on the camera and see how it gets on.
-or get a new battery from these guys in germany: http://www.ffr-film.de (you send them your old accu and they send you another one or the same just as new) for around 100 euros, which would nearly cost me as much as the trip to paris for a day.
After that, I might decide to keep the camera if it works and have it revised, have it serviced even if the film motor won't run or just sell it, which would be a pity because i've been dying to own this camera for so long and stroll half naked with her along the beach at sunset..... you know the kind of way.
No seriously, i did the test for the auto light metre. it's going fine and the iris is moving differently according to the asa setting. so it all sounds good.
What really drives me mad is that it's not running and i don't know if it's the camera or the battery and that i don't have a proper battery to check if it can run or not.
I will have a look at your new links next week, cause i don't have acrobat reader to read pdf files here. the 3rd link (word doc) is not related to beaulieu cams though.
But sure this is loads of precious info you're giving me there.
thanks a lot
Ju

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Post by ericMartinJarvies » Sat May 03, 2003 11:26 pm

no probs ... just sharing info!! i ask a million and one qustions, and alot of the time people asociate that with ignornace. i find having several answers from differant people gives me a better overall single answer. and contrary to the beleif of some members on this site, it does not take years to learn.

regarding you camera, i would say that if th test is showing your battery is properly charged(according to the needle in the viewfinder), that you do not have a battery problem. instead, it is most likely a loose wire in the hand grip. or, it is the same wires, except higher up located on the guts of the camera. or, it is the t2 or t3 transistors, perhaps evn another compnant like a diode.

so, before you go and spend money, do yourself a favor and take the handgrip off, and inspect the soldering welds that connect the wires to the 3 trigger switch assembly ... if they are all connected, and none of them are touching the other, then that is ok. move the switch into all three positions and make sure the asembly is making contact. if so, put it back together and send it to a service person and explain that the batteyr is good, and the 3-trigger switch is fine, so you assum a wire has come loose inside, or a transistor is faulty. i have the same problem with 4 of my cameras here ... and because i live in cabo, i do not have acess to these parts. i do not know where ot get them. so, i am going to be forced to sell these cameras for cheap, but with a guarantte that the motors and light meters work correctly. i have already painted them nad serviced them otherwise, and tested them using parts i soldered from another camera for the sake of testing/determining what parts were faulity. i do not think these types of transistors could cost more then $10.00 ... but who sells them? if i knew, and if it does not cost me more ten $50.00 to get them here, would like ot fix them myself so i cna sel lthe cameras for $500-600. each. as it stands, will have to sell them for $200-300 each, which is what i paid for them, but i have a ton of work into them, way more then $300.00 worth, considering the rubberized coatings and new paint jobs. but what the hey, such is life ...
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661

andy

Post by andy » Sun May 04, 2003 12:23 am

Hi, i recommend you send the camera to Bjorn for a service, there may be other things wrong with the camera, probably not though, but at least after a service you know the camera
will run ok, the lens and back focus would have been checked at the same time.He may be able to advise you on the battery aswell.

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Post by ericMartinJarvies » Sun May 04, 2003 6:50 am

oh ... i forgot to tell you something about the beaulieus that i have found to be a common problem, and i have a sneaking feeling this just may be the solution to your problem, or at lleast i hope it is. ok, on the back of the camera you will notice either 2 or 4 holes/sockets. if your particular camera has 4 sockets locarted to the left/under side of the viewfinder/dioptre, you will want to check the top set. in particular, the smaller of the two(not the power supply socket). insert onto the remote control socket a jack plug(or something like it, must fit in snuggly, not to thin) termination of the remote control lead, set the release button to continues drive, with the trigger in, and release by means of the switch terminating the remote control lead. if it works, that is the problem, you will need to tkae apart the camera to get to that socket so you cna retension it. easy fix. if that does not make the cmaera run, let me know and i will provide you with another test. we will go through each one until we isolate the problem, if you like :)
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon May 05, 2003 3:46 pm

I tested the camera also with the remote control plugged next to the viewfinder, and i had the same result.
But the battery is very low (the needle does not even reach the middle)
the film transport won't work and only the zoom and auto exposure do (the three wires in the handle are correctly soldered btw).
One more funny thing: if i put the auto mode and test the exposure, the iris will move very very slowly to the appropriate setting(quicker if the charger is plugged in), but if i press the trigger at the same time (while on auto) the iris will move to 16 very quickly (probably because the system thinks it's overexposed as no film transport is occuring and the shutter might be open then)
And also, the contact of the battery charging plug is strange. The light on the charger first goes red when you plug it, but after a few seconds, it looks like there is a false contact but i read on a post yesterday this might happen with very old batteries. so to charge the accus, i have to pull back the "jack" plug slightly and put something on the lead to keep a contact.

Another question, what battery do you need for a 4008 zm4? this fellow from germany who recells beaulieu batteries told me i had to get my battery recelled into a 500maH nimh battery (120 euros) (he also does some 600maH recelling for 100 euros) Could he be right? I looked at the beaulieu homepage and they sell 600 maH batteries for the beaulieu 4008. so i am wondering who i must believe.
thanks for your help

basstruc not logged in

Post by basstruc not logged in » Mon May 05, 2003 3:49 pm

Je crois savir que Beaulieu à arreté toute activité en Super8 et ne se contente plus que de vendre leur stock de pieces détaché mais ca demande confirmation. En tout cas, va pas chez Synchro Cine Quartz
matt

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon May 05, 2003 7:15 pm

what's the story with cine quartz? are they that bad? or do they try to rip you off?
i remember being there once and they seemed pretty unfriendly to me, but i never really dealt with them.
as far as beaulieu is concerned, one the beaulieu-image.fr website, they sell some accu (600 maH). is that what you need for the 4008 zm4 or is it for earlier zm models, in which case i would need something like a 500 mah battery.
where is the cheapest place in france for 4008 accus?
or if i have my camera serviced by bjorn andersen, does he also sell new or recelled accus and for what price?
thanks
ju

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Post by ericMartinJarvies » Mon May 05, 2003 7:57 pm

hello,

if you have 500 or 600 maH, no problem. one will simply provide longer life/more film shooting, because of it's capacity. for example, if you purchase a 3-pin dummy battery for your 4008(whatever model), and use an external battery pack, you can increase the maH significantly. naturally, your battery pack becomes larger in size.

i have taken snapshots with my digital camera of the schematics i have for the 4008. i need to setup my scanner and scan the scematics correctly when i have some time. but for now, these images should help you out as it relates to understanding your camera. i had 4 cameras with bad transistors/diodes, and i was going to get rid of them because i did not have access to these inexpensive electronic componants. however, the day before yesterday i visited a guy in town that has been repairing electronics in cabo for the past 20 years. needless to say, he has a large inventory of graveyard electronics. so, i went in, and showed him what i needed, and he started going through his piles of parts/electronics, and bingo! he found the exact/same type transistors on other, older equipment he had in inventory. so i was able to repair 2 of my broken cameras as a result of the transistors he was able to locate. he is going to keep looking for more so i cna repair my other 2 broken 4008's. they cost me 100. pesos($10.usd). so that was encouraging to say the least! but i beleive if you live in an area that has electronics/specialty parts/supply super centers, you should be able to purchase anything/part that is inside of the 4008. after all, it would be foolish to assume beaulieu used propriatary electronic componants on ther cameras at the time ... it would have been cost prohibitive. so if you have any electronics that we manufactured in the 70s and 80s, chances are they have the same type of transistors/diods found in the beaulieu cameras.

ok, here are some images .. enjoy.
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eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon May 05, 2003 8:26 pm

eric you lunatic!
(has to be taken as a compliment)
thanks so much for this info
i wish i had one or two more 4008 in bad condition to try and open them up, but mine doesn't look too bad so i think i won't undergo beaulieu surgery for the moment.
that's really good stuff for you, that you were able to spot some electro components.
do you think it looks bad if when i test the camera in auto mode while pressing the trigger, the iris ring goes straight to 16?
for the moment I assume a new battery is what i need. it's a pity i'm so broke at the moment though.
does anyone know where to get the cheapest 3-in dummy batteries for a 4008 in europe?
thanks a lot again
ju

Basstruc not logged in

Post by Basstruc not logged in » Mon May 05, 2003 8:39 pm

Wow Eric, what are those books ?
Hey eric, have a simple new idea for you : why not doing a plug on Beaulieu electric zoom so as we could comand it via a little remote ? Would be good fo special shoots or assistant work.

Ju, synchro cine quartz font du sale boulot et cher. C'est tout. Z'ont pas envie de bosser....
Bjorn a l'air pas mal pour la reparation des Beaulieu d'aprés ce que j'ai compris ici. Sinon, moi, pour ma 4008, je me suis fabriqué ma propre alime externe 1200A. C'est simple et économique
Matt

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