Best cleaner/lubricant poll

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What is the overall "best" film cleaner/lubricant

Renovex
0
No votes
Film-Renew
1
11%
Ecco
1
11%
Edwal
3
33%
FilmGuard
1
11%
Surfaset
0
No votes
Other
3
33%
 
Total votes : 9

Best cleaner/lubricant poll

Postby etimh » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:03 am

What is your vote for the "best" overall film cleaner/lubricant?

Defend your choice with specifics--cleaning and/or lubrication properties; drying time; cost; other intangibles.

Also, explain and discuss any "other" choices like WD-40, Pledge, or any other crazy home formulas you've used.

Tim
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Postby filmamigo » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:22 pm

I can't answer your poll because I don't lubricate my films. If I'm having a transfer made, I ask for a "clean and prep" -- assuming this includes lubricating the film.

Do no labs lubricate film before it's returned? :?:

Do you all lubricate your own film? :?:

I don't hear a lot about this issue, and it's important for Super 8 newbies to know...
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Postby John_Pytlak » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:34 pm

If you just need to remove loose dirt particles, consider the use of Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) film cleaners, which use no solvents or other things harmful to the environment:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hse/e ... 4.22&lc=en

Kodak Wins EPA Award for Helping Reduce Ozone Depletion

Motion Picture Film Industry Leader to be Honored for Creating PTR technology
Eastman Kodak Company will receive today the 2003 Stratospheric Ozone Protection Award from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in recognition of Kodak's commitment to reducing ozone-depleting chemicals through the development of Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) technology for cleaning motion picture film.

The Stratospheric Ozone Protection Award, presented as part of Earth Day celebrations worldwide, recognizes a commitment to helping prevent the release of ozone-depleting chemicals. Kodak was one of only four companies worldwide honored in 2003.


Particle Transfer Roller
"Kodak has shown you can achieve top-notch motion-picture film quality while improving environmental standards," said Drusilla Hufford, director of the EPA's Global Programs Division. "You can enjoy your next film knowing Kodak's development of PTRs has eliminated the use of several hundred thousand pounds of ozone-depleting substances over the past 12 years."

The Particle Transfer Roller was developed by Kodak in 1989. It is a specially molded soft polyurethane roller that captures dirt and dust through contact adhesion without the use of solvents. Prior to 1990, nearly all motion picture film was cleaned offline in ultrasonic cleaning machines that used a solvent known as 1,1,1-trichloroethane for particulate removal. Kodak developed and promoted use of PTR film cleaners that could remove dirt and dust from film online during conventional film printing at labs and while motion pictures are projected at cinemas. As motion picture film glides over the PTR, dirt and dust from the film stick to the roller. The process improves motion picture film quality while eliminating the use of environmentally damaging solvents. Over the past 12 years, PTRs have supplanted 1,1,1-trichloroethane as the primary method for cleaning motion picture film worldwide.

"The PTR innovation helps protect the high quality of our film product at theaters while also protecting the environment," said Eric Rodli, Kodak's president of the Entertainment Imaging division. "The PTR technology that we developed and shared worldwide is characterized by what's not there-dirt and dust on movie film-just as the stratosphere is protected by what's not there-ozone-depleting solvents."

Kodak has disclosed the technology to customers and competitors for their unrestricted use. FPC, a Kodak subsidiary, sells PTRs to motion picture labs, telecine facilities, and theater operators. PTRs are used in thousands of movie theaters around the world, including most IMAX theaters. The solvent-free process has eliminated the use of several hundred thousand pounds of ozone-depleting substances. Kodak estimates that when combined with the use of CFC free refrigeration system upgrades in film manufacturing plants, the company eliminated more than one million pounds of ozone-depleting substances.

"It's remarkable that such a simple, compact innovation has had such a positive environmental impact worldwide," said Jonathan Banks, President of BHP, Inc., a leading manufacturer of motion picture film printing equipment sold to film laboratories. "Kodak's technology is a step forward for the entire motion-picture film industry."

The PTRs themselves are environmentally friendly in that they can be washed with water and reused once they accumulate dirt. One set of PTRs can clean an estimated 20 million feet of motion-picture print film. PTRs are generally only discarded once they harden, become physically damaged, or lose cleaning efficiency.

Fun Fact:
Kodak's efforts to protect the environment also extend to the film itself. Each year, Kodak recycles three billion feet, or 18 million pounds, of motion picture film.





http://www.epa.gov/ozone/awards/03winners.html


Eastman Kodak Company
Country: USA
For: Innovation in PTR Film Cleaners and Elimination of CFCs Worldwide

Kodak promoted the use of Particle Transfer Roller (PTR) film cleaners as an alternative to off-line use of 1,1,1-trichloroethane for cleaning motion film. PTR technology uses a specially molded soft polyurethane roller that captures dirt and dust through contact adhesion without the use of solvents. Kodak encourages PTR use by conducting technical presentations and distributing product literature and has donated the technology to the public domain for use by customers and competitors. Kodak also implemented an aggressive stewardship program to eliminate ODSs from its industrial refrigeration operations, which are among the largest in the world. A key feature of the program is the intensive retrofit and replacement of existing refrigeration equipment. With PTR and its efforts to reduce emissions from refrigeration equipment, Kodak has eliminated over one million pounds of ODSs from its worldwide operations.



For oily or greasy dirt (e.g., fingerprints), use a film cleaner that has a solvent that won't harm film:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/hse/s ... 16.4&lc=en
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Postby johnnhud » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:57 pm

Edwal Film cleaners is the only one I have ever used. I have been really happy with it though. A small bottle will go a long way, easily cleaning 1000's of feet of film for about $10. It dries quickly and always removes a ton of dirt off old film. I havn't had any film get scratched with it either. It would be interesting to use one of those PTR's that John mentioned. I wonder how much they cost.
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Postby John_Pytlak » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:46 pm

Kodak and other companies sell PTRs:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/produ ... 8.10&lc=en

They are widely used by film labs and film-to-video transfer facilities to clean negative film, as they are very gentle to the film and do not use harmful solvents.
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Postby Mitch Perkins » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:29 pm

John_Pytlak wrote:Kodak and other companies sell PTRs:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/produ ... 8.10&lc=en

They are widely used by film labs and film-to-video transfer facilities to clean negative film, as they are very gentle to the film and do not use harmful solvents.


John, what's your opinion on the use of isopropyl alcohol on negative stocks? I haven't run into any problems to date, but it says it's 99%, [I assume alcohol], but it doesn't say what the other 1% is...water?

I ask because the rollers presumably don't hide base scratches.

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Postby John_Pytlak » Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:32 pm

Mitch Perkins wrote:
John_Pytlak wrote:Kodak and other companies sell PTRs:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/produ ... 8.10&lc=en

They are widely used by film labs and film-to-video transfer facilities to clean negative film, as they are very gentle to the film and do not use harmful solvents.


John, what's your opinion on the use of isopropyl alcohol on negative stocks? I haven't run into any problems to date, but it says it's 99%, [I assume alcohol], but it doesn't say what the other 1% is...water?

Mitch


Yes, water is the usual contaminant in Isopropyl Alcohol. You want fresh, pure, anhydrous Isopropyl Alcohol as a film cleaner. "Rubbing Alcohol" is at best usually only 91% Isopropyl. Be sure it is fresh, as it can adsorb some moisture if exposed to moist air.

Remember, it is VERY flammable.
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Postby T-Scan » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:20 am

PTR rollers would be so nice to have, but they are probably expensive? I worry too much about adding scratches when cleaning myself.
100D and Vision 3 please
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Postby threeinv » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:13 am

Not too expensive, actually, according to this:

https://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acroba ... 1605_Q.pdf

A single roller ranges from $40-54, while a 35mm PTR spindle assembly is $55. The difference between the 35mm and 70mm rollers is obvious, but could you describe for us, John, the difference/advantage of the 1.5" x 1.5" Telecine Matte version? Does either the matte or shiny texture of the rollers work better than the other?

I'm not the first to think of the possibility, of course, but I'm picturing adding a couple of these to the front end of a WorkPrinter. Mitch has done something similar with alcohol pads on his telecine rig. I'm sure you would want one roller above and one below the film, but I wonder how they would best be spaced apart. Should they be in vertical alignment with each other (sandwiching the film), or would anything be lost or gained by spacing the top & bottom rollers apart by an inch or more? Would 2 of the 35mm spindle assemblies be most appropriate for this use?

--Derrick
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Postby Janne » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:38 am

threeinv wrote:Does either the matte or shiny texture of the rollers work better than the other?


Shiny rollers are for standard speed operation and matte versions for high speed operation.
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Postby T-Scan » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:39 am

Under $100 for the setup, not bad! think I'll order some eventually. whats the best setup for S-8 film? something for just hand winding through.
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Postby Mitch Perkins » Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:34 am

threeinv wrote: Should they be in vertical alignment with each other (sandwiching the film), or would anything be lost or gained by spacing the top & bottom rollers apart by an inch or more? Would 2 of the 35mm spindle assemblies be most appropriate for this use?

--Derrick


Hey! Check this out -

http://www.screensound.gov.au/screensou ... enDocument

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Postby VideoFred » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:43 am

These PTR rollers are looking very interesting to use for dirt removing, just before the film enters the projector.

But I have seen them in the warehouse, very cheap, for cleaning clothing etc... It's a 'sticky' silicon rubber-like coating. And you can clean it with plain water. Is this the same product?

Now, for film cleaning and renewing, I'm testing Vitafilm right now. I can already say colors are looking slightly better.. more vivid.

I applied the Vitafilm a few weeks ago and placed the films back in the plastic boxes, on the original plastic reels. I know Vitafilm is attacking plastics, but the manual says it wont hurt if you not apply to much or soak the film. If you soak the film, you must use metal reels and boxes. However, after a few weeks, everything still looks fine.

But I think all these film renewers are using almost the same base products: some kind of 'naphta' and parafin, like John often mentioned here.

Personal I would avoid products with trichlor.... or Perchloroethylene
..... in it. Dangerous products!

Fred.
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Postby audadvnc » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:08 pm

PTR rollers work and they are not used up like film cleaners. You clean PTR rollers by washing them or by rolling them down a strip of adhesive tape (clear plastic wrapping tape works fine).
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PTR Film Cleaning

Postby John_Pytlak » Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:44 pm

PTRs are made of molded polyurethane, and do not contain any additional adhesive material. "Lint Rollers" are a similar concept, but are usually much too sticky to use on film, and may contain additional chemicals or adhesives.

If a film cleaning solvent has to warn that it attacks plastic...well film is coated on a plastic base (cellulose triacetate). :roll:
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