Editing Super8-films

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jpolzfuss
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Editing Super8-films

Post by jpolzfuss » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:32 pm

Hi,

I did a "final cut" of my latest Super8-film recently (using a hand-cranked viewer). Unfortunately I have to redo a lot of cuts since the film still contains several split-second-scenes where the actors are waiting for the "action"-command, ... . Or where the actors have already left the screen and the "just one or two frames with only grass" turned out to be one or two seconds with only grass. I only noticed this when watching the film projected on a bigger screen.
Should I get myself a viewer with a bigger screen or one that isn't hand-cranked? Or do you have got any other advices?

Jörg
P.S.: So far editing the silent material took much longer than then shooting the scenes (factor 2 or more) - is this "normal" or this just me fighting with editor and splicer?

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Post by Mogzy » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:32 pm

I find that for frame-by-frame accuracy, the best way is to hold the film up to the light and use a small pair of scissors for the cuts. This way you can see which frames you are removing. I use a Fujica Single 8 splicer too as the tapes only cover two frames.

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audadvnc
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Re: Editing Super8-films

Post by audadvnc » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:47 pm

jpolzfuss wrote:Hi,

I did a "final cut" of my latest Super8-film recently (using a hand-cranked viewer). Unfortunately I have to redo a lot of cuts since the film still contains...
That's a rough cut, and is part of the process. After cutting Super 8 original and seeing the results you start to get an appreciation for 16mm production tools & methods.

Remember, S8 is a home movie medium that can take pretty good images; attempting a big project may be asking too much of it, like souping up a VW Beetle to race. Don't force the format to do something it wasn't designed for and then be disappointed with the results.
Robert Hughes

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Re: Editing Super8-films

Post by etimh » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:55 pm

audadvnc wrote:Remember, S8 is a home movie medium that can take pretty good images; attempting a big project may be asking too much of it, like souping up a VW Beetle to race. Don't force the format to do something it wasn't designed for and then be disappointed with the results.
Image

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Post by richard p. t. » Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:46 pm

Well done!
Be very careful when using a viewer - these things can work o.k., but can also make a lot of scratches. Use them sparingly.
Break you film into scenes (or other short lengths) - about 2 minutes.
Watch a scene through and write down a few words for each shot - eg. wide shot getting out of car. CU face. Shot of house. etc.. I then note the trimming required for each shot. If I need to lose half a second at the front of shot 2, I write '-1/2' in front of 'CU face'. Now make the cut - remembering that it is far better to have to make an additional cut than try to put something back - edit salami style - a slice at a time!
Once you are happy with the scenes individually, put them back together as a film. You may need to cut more from the scene transitons, etc..
By the way, I find a hand magnifier (available at photo stores) very useful.
Enjoy!

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Re: Editing Super8-films

Post by jpolzfuss » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:13 pm

audadvnc wrote:That's a rough cut, and is part of the process.
You're right - I only wanted it to be a "final version", but some errors are too obvious. Hence I'll fix the "minor flaws", too... this will probably take me another 4 to 8 hours for a 15min short movie... *sigh*
audadvnc wrote:After cutting Super 8 original and seeing the results you start to get an appreciation for 16mm production tools & methods.
When I do have the space and the money, I'll get myself a Steenbeck or Schmid flatbed-editor for Super8 ;)

Some time ago you've been able to rent a workplace with such an editor here in Berlin and/or Potsdam... I wonder if this is still possible?!
audadvnc wrote:Don't force the format to do something it wasn't designed for and then be disappointed with the results.
I guess that it was very well designed for editing - I guess it's just me expecting a fast work-flow like clicking some avi-files in Adobe Premiere ;)

Jörg

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jpolzfuss
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Post by jpolzfuss » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:07 pm

richard p. t. wrote:Be very careful when using a viewer - these things can work o.k., but can also make a lot of scratches. Use them sparingly.
I just replaced my Revue-viewer with one from Goko. The Goko has got a "scratch-free mechanism"-logo on its wrapping - and it really only touches the film at the "soundtrack"-area and this only at three points. Hence It's definately better than the Revue - even though the Revue did have a brighter and bigger screen...
richard p. t. wrote:Break you film into scenes (or other short lengths) - about 2 minutes.
Good idea - I'll try it on my next project.
richard p. t. wrote:Watch a scene through and write down a few words for each shot - eg. wide shot getting out of car. CU face. Shot of house. etc.. I then note the trimming required for each shot. If I need to lose half a second at the front of shot 2, I write '-1/2' in front of 'CU face'. Now make the cut - remembering that it is far better to have to make an additional cut than try to put something back - edit salami style - a slice at a time!
I've filmed the projector's screen (a Bauer TV-style rear-projector) with a video-camera. Even though the video is flickering, ... , it's much easier (and film-safe) than projecting the film over and over again ;) And even better: I can still watch the whole movie while editing - so far my notes haven't been that good.
richard p. t. wrote:By the way, I find a hand magnifier (available at photo stores) very useful.
I would still have problems identifying motions. E.g. in one scene the actors are already walking and then start to run on the "action"-command. But with a hand-cranked viewer it's nearly impossible -at least for me- to tell apart the walking from the running :(

Jörg

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Re: Editing Super8-films

Post by jaxshooter » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:53 pm

jpolzfuss wrote:
audadvnc wrote:That's a rough cut, and is part of the process.

When I do have the space and the money, I'll get myself a Steenbeck or Schmid flatbed-editor for Super8

Jörg
I've only seen one and it was on this site.When you know where such can be had,please let me know.I don't think there were many flatbed editors made for super 8.Then you have the task of finding mag fullcoat for sound.Again,let me know when you cross that hurdle.

The old Super 8 Filmaker magazine had ads with pics of various flatbeds for super 8 that existed in the 70's,but I don't think there were many made and I doubt many super 8 film makers invested in them.

The Optasound ESTEC was the most ambitious of that type of super 8 mega editor from the 70's but someone on here that owned one said that it was a real lemon.

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