Right filter for (outdated) Ektachrome 160 (Sound)?

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tlatosmd
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Right filter for (outdated) Ektachrome 160 (Sound)?

Post by tlatosmd » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:12 am

As you guys probably all know by now I'm an avid buyer of discontinued soundfilms from eBay. With Ektachrome 160 and the ordinary in-built daylight filter, however, I've had less than satisfactory results in that the colors use to turn out *very* yellow, actually so much of yellow that it's hard even in telecine to get rid of it. The following example frames are from carts that outdated from the late 80s to the late 90s, and all were shot in 2004 (and, again, contrast corrected for comp viewing), so I also wonder might it only be from outdating? Or could it be Ektachrome 160 (Sound) always turns out this yellow when using the in-built filter, as even those carts outdating in 1997 turned out just the same as those outdating in the late 80s?

Image

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Image

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Judging from these examples, I suppose what I'd need to compensate would be a blueish filter? Could you recommend me one particular tone (and tell me its filter code number, such as '85' for an orange daylight filter)?
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Post by Angus » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:25 am

Could be poor processing, could be outdated film...E160 for me never came out yellow.

Was it 160G perchance? That was supposed to be balanced somewhere between T and D...and always came out rather brown-ish regardless of lighting conditions - but it had an EI of 160 in all light conditions because the filter was never used.

That also looks too grainy even for E160. I know it was a stock well known for grain but I've not had any quite so grainy myself.

Generally E160 keeps well, even 15 year old stock...unless it's been exposed to high humidity.
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Post by tlatosmd » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:29 pm

As for processing, it's done by Frank.

Between T and D, never use filter? Sounds logical...I need more blue, and shooting Tungsten in daylight without a filter gives more blueish colors. Maybe that's also the reason why it's so grainy, the filter blocked too much light from the film and by brightening up the picture in post now (be it in processing or in telecining) the grain is getting increased as well?

I doubt it's actually an outdating or humidity issue, this year's Ektachrome 160 Soundcarts turned out just like that as well, shot under the same conditions (I used the filter again), and I get all my films from a wide variety of sources.

I have no idea though if it's type G (or A?), it's just the regular Ektachrome 160 Soundcarts, process EM-26, yellow and blue box. Did they come in two different types?

Thanks so far Angus, I guess it's my wrong use of the daylight filter. What's an 'EI' of 160 though? Is that ASA?
"Mama don't take my Kodachrome away!" -
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Post by mr8mm » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:13 pm

First question has to be where was the film processed. I have shot alot of 160 sound over the last several years and the results are all different even though the film was all from the same batch and stored equally. i have tried different processors and gotten wildly different results. Even from the same lab. i have gotten the best results from Rocky mountain but they are expensive and have long waits but when their chemicals are fresh the results are aas good as I have seen for E160. I have used the PK59, Rocky mountain, Yale and martin Baumgarten. Spectra in LA also will process E160 fro about $30.00 per cart. Which Lab did you use?

John S.

tlatosmd
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Post by tlatosmd » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:25 am

Well, all Frank Bruinsma ( http://www.super8.nl ), for a bit over 15 Euros per cart. We've all had satisfactory results with Frank usually.
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Post by camera8mm » Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:19 am

Most of my e160 came out with a greenish tint in low light. I tried using tiffen cc001 color compensating filter but it didnt help. it think e160 needs a lot of bright light.

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Post by Angus » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:40 pm

Was this E160 or E160 type G ?????? It should say on thebox, and the film cartridge label. What was the Kodak number code on the box?

Neither needs lots of light, at least compared to K40. E160 type A gives you 100ASA daylight (with filter) and 160 artificial - hardly low sensitivities (compared to K40 with 25 and 40 ASA).

E160 G gives you supposedly 160ASA in both light situations, always without filter. It was balanced somewhere between daylight and artificial and sadly often always looked a bit strange in any lighting conditions.

Back "in the day" these were considered high speed stocks, remember many cameras will meter tri-x at 160ASA so that speed is about as fast as it gets for most super 8 users.
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Post by tlatosmd » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:44 pm

It were films of this type:

Image

From my experience they never read on their boxes whether they are type A or G (that's why I ask whether they came in both types with that box), or what filter goes with them. Boxes and cartridge labels of those particular examples above are gone now. I have more of them but I don't wanna open their boxes before shooting. However, it definitely weren't any of these films:

Image

Did these latter come in a sound variety at all? These type G films usually turn green fo me, not yellow or brown, just like VNF.
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Post by Angus » Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:02 pm

I've not come across sound type G film but that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't exist.

If it didn't say G then it would be the regular Ektachrome 160...which usually goes reddish for me when outdated. Any super 8 camera equipped to expose 160 ASA film (all but the most basic models designed soley for K40) should meter and filter this film correctly.

I've never had any turn the same colours as the scans provided. Though I've never used Frank's lab I hear only good things about it...however I am inclined to suspect the processing if poor storage can be ruled out.
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Post by tlatosmd » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:29 pm

It's all shot with my Bauer cam.

Well, since I seem to need more blue, I'll shoot it without the in-built filter next time.
"Mama don't take my Kodachrome away!" -
Paul Simon

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Bauer S209XL, Revue Sound CS60AF, Canon 310XL

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E 160 sound

Post by dave » Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:50 pm

I HAVE A LARGE SUPPLY OF KODAK E 160 SOUND FILM 50FT CARTS A SAMPLE OF WHICH WAS RECENTLY TESTED BY MARTY BAUMGARTEN AND FOUND TO BE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION FOR PROCESSING WHICH I EXPECT TO SELL AT $30 PER ROLL (PROCESSING NOT INCLUDED) IF INTERESTED E Mail or call 1 800 806 6808
dave in new jersey

tlatosmd
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Post by tlatosmd » Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:02 pm

What age? If they outdated pre-1984, they're pretty much unusable as they'd be M4, not EM-26.
"Mama don't take my Kodachrome away!" -
Paul Simon

Chosen tools of the trade:
Bauer S209XL, Revue Sound CS60AF, Canon 310XL

The Beatles split up in 1970; long live The Beatles!

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