CineMate Dual 8mm telecine machines

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CineMate Dual 8mm telecine machines

Postby MovieStuff » Wed May 01, 2002 1:17 am

Previously on the old board, I made an annoucement about the introduction of the CineMate series, which has three different shutter blade configurations for 15fps, 20fps and 24fps. Marc posted the following information about which transfer rate might be the most economical if only one speed had to be chosen:

Marc wrote:

"Hi Roger,
My latest analysis has led me to the following conclusions:The five blade shutter will give you Original+original+original+ composite+composite and the pattern repeats itself. The three blade shutter gives you original +original+ composite and the pattern repeats itself. The four blade shutter (which I am assuming you are using on the 15 fps model) can yield one of two results -no guarantee which because the video camera will not be synced with the projector. 1)original-1 +original-1 +original-2+original-2 + original-3 +original -3... etc. Or 2) original +composite +original +composite +original.....etc. My opinion is that the three blade shutter (20 fps) projector would probably be the best of the the three because you could go up or down in digital editing to change to 24 fps. or 15 fps. In the five blade shutter scenario ( 24 fps.) the composite frames occur 6/15 of the time and in the three blade shutter scenario ( 20 fps. ) the composite frames occur 5/16 of the time. So the composite frames occur less frequently in the three blade shutter projector. If you want shoot at 24 frames per second and then transfer at 20 fps. this works out just as well, if not better, when you go to digitally adjust the speed.

The only possible advantage of the four blade model( and no guarantees here since the video camera will not be synced with the projector) is the possibility of getting all original frames on the chance that the video camera will start recording on the right shutter opening.

I need to correct a typo on the previous reply I meant to compare 6/15 with 5/15 ..still a better ratio!"

Hi, Marc!

I transferred your material to the new board. You are totally correct in your observations. However, the only fly in the ointment is that the CineMates are not synchronous. They can drift slightly over time even though flicker will not necessarily be visible. This means that regardless of whether or not you start on the correct shutter opening, the end results might be random and too tedious to depend on. Again, the CineMate will transfer with no visible flicker but that does not mean that you are perfectly in synch with the video as there is a margin of error that can allow for loss of synch with no noticable signs of flicker. Even super expensive telecine projectors with synchronous motors can suffer slippage or loss of synch, which is why telecine transfers rarely synch up with Rank transfers, even though they are supposedly running at the same speed of 23.97. Telecine projectors can be off, even ones with synchronous motors and the CineMates do not have synchronous motors.

So, again, while the theory holds true, the reality is that if people want Rank-frame accuracy, then the WorkPrinter Pro is the way to go. If they just want to get their footage into their computer or onto tape for editing and have it look really good, then the CineMate series is more practical. Both the CineMate and the WorkPrinter will give you results that far surpass any other transfer device available next to a Rank transfer.

The CineMate series has not yet been "officially" added to my website but the information and pricing should be up in the next few days. The CineMate units will offer a condenser lens for shooting right off the film, an enlarged gate and true, flicker free transfers to either your camera or computer with zero hot spot and crystal clarity. Price for the CineMate units is $699 plus shipping.

For new readers wanting more information about the transfer devices I offer, please click my URL "www" button below!

(Man, I love this new board!)

Roger Evans
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Postby marc » Wed May 01, 2002 2:38 am

HI Roger, further analysis has led me to a more accurate conclusion. Although the three blade shutter model will have only 5/ 16 of the total frames as composite frames. when 24 frames per second is transfered at 20 frames per second and then digitally brought back up to speed ( multiplied by 5/6 or Multiply the frames in a given scene by 5 and then divide out by six) you get the same ratio as the 24 fps. transfer: 6/15 of the total frames are composite frames. Only now the configuration is slightly different: instead of getting original +original +original+ composite +composite (then the pattern is repeated ) as with the 24 fps. 5 blade shutter transfer, you get original +original +composite +original +composite( then the pattern is repeated). for all intents and purposes , I do not think that this should effect perception any and it might even have a slight edge over the 24 fps. transfer.
Marc
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Workprinter

Postby Fifth Beatle » Wed May 01, 2002 9:22 pm

This is not related to the above discussion directly, but it is a question for MovieStuff. On the other board, you had said you were going to be discontinuing two of the Workprinters, and would be carrying one model which takes the place of two. Will you still be offering the universal condenser lens? I already have a projector that runs 18 and 24, but I would like something better than an Ambico to run the image through.
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Re: Workprinter

Postby MovieStuff » Wed May 01, 2002 9:26 pm

Fifth Beatle wrote: Will you still be offering the universal condenser lens? I already have a projector that runs 18 and 24, but I would like something better than an Ambico to run the image through.
~5B


Hi, Stewart!

Yes I will still offer the condenser lens. However, you really can't use it with just any projector. The light source MUST be diffused and you MUST drop the intensity of your bulb to only a fraction of the original output. Otherwise you will get a hot spot and to much light will possibly damage your exposure system, your eyes and also provide so much depth of field that every spec of dust on every single optical surface between the film and the camera will be in focus. But other than that, yeah, I'll still offer them!

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custom shutter blades maybe?

Postby supa_ate_sixteen » Wed May 01, 2002 10:22 pm

Hey Roger if I sent you a three bladed shutter from my Elmo, could you perhaps conjur up a five bladed version that I could experiment with? Just an idea......
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Postby Guest » Wed May 01, 2002 10:22 pm

Roger,
Do you have any tips on how the average schlep can go about doing this on their own projector? What adjustments can we make and how to go about it?
Marc
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5 bladed shutters again......

Postby supa_ate_sixteen » Thu May 02, 2002 12:31 am

Hey Roger.

Just wanted to add if you could design what a five bladed shutter should look like (the dimensions of the blades, distance, etc) for an Elmo Super 8 projector, I can ask a relative who does sheet metal fabrication if he could make me a bundle of these little guys. Could a flat disk that is around 1/8" inch thick work if it was just cut to the right dimensions and holes drilled for the screws? Looking at my Elmo shutter blade, it doesn't seem to complex. We just need 5 blades for 24fps flicker free transfers instead of 3 blades which come standard, correct? :P
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